[Peace-discuss] for more clarity on this issue

[E. Wayne Johnson]

Wikipaedia seems to support the appraisal that the collapse of the 
Owenites was due to the rot within the walls not the pressure from the 
outside.


LAURIE wrote:
>
> Wayne,
>
>  
>
> It has been a very long while since I have thought about those 
> communities; but based on my recollections, one of the contributing 
> factors in the demise of those communities as well as others whose 
> names and locations I cannot remember was the fact that they did not 
> exist in isolation but in competition with hostile communities in 
> their environment upon whom they had some dependencies.  However, the 
> factors you bring up could also have played a significant role as well.
>
>  
>
> Not to pull a Carl and become academic intellectual on you; but I 
> would refer you to the following link which may furnish some resources 
> on the subject of Utopian communities other than Harmony and New 
> Harmony in Indiana.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Harmony,_Indiana
>
>  
>
> *From:* E. Wayne Johnson [mailto:ewj at pigs.ag]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 08, 2008 10:32 AM
> *To:* LAURIE
> *Cc:* peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
> *Subject:* Re: [Peace-discuss] for more clarity on this issue
>
>  
>
> Laurie,
> I am not familiar with any utopian experiments in Indiana other than 
> the one at New Harmony, which is in my old stomping ground in southern 
> Indiana/southern Illinois. 
>
> The first colony at NewHarmony, the Rappites, were decimated by ague 
> (malaria).  Although malaria is not common there now, the convergence 
> of the Wabash and Ohio at the southern tip of Indiana is still a 
> swampy flood plain and is home to hordes of colossal and voracious 
> mosquitoes.  The Rappites retreated to Pennsylvania.  The second 
> colony at New Harmony was formed by the intellectual group called 
> Owenites.  The Owenites did not figure out how to get along well with 
> one another and their fellowship collapsed after a few years.
>
>
>
> LAURIE wrote:
>
> > Unfortunately, that armpit of a city forms the largest population 
> base in the state, and therefore essentially dominates much of what we 
> do even >though Chicago is more than a 100 miles away.
>
>  
>
> I doubt if that armpit is any different from other large cities and, 
> for that matter, smaller locales except for size and population 
> density.  However, leaving that aside, what you are decrying is one of 
> the properties of majority rule definitions of Democracy in federal 
> system of government within the U.S.  It is the sort of 
> socio-political environment that crushed the early Utopian Socialist 
> communities that were created in locations such as rural Indiana as 
> well as early Mormon communities.  Formal local autonomy and 
> independence is relatively meaningless in an interdependent society 
> when the surrounding community's and their populations demand 
> conformity with majority rule.
>
>  
>
>  
>
> *From:* peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net 
> <mailto:peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net> 
> [mailto:peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net] *On Behalf Of *E. 
> Wayne Johnson
> *Sent:* Monday, July 07, 2008 11:45 PM
> *To:* Barbara kessel
> *Cc:* Peace-discuss; CUCPJ
> *Subject:* Re: [Peace-discuss] for more clarity on this issue
>
>  
>
> I don't understand why the people in Chicago don't get rid of Daley.  
> I mean get him out of office and out of the way, not rub him out.
>
> The government of Chicago seems almost totally incapable of performing 
> the most basic functions of
> "securing life, liberty, and happiness" even though their populace is 
> taxed at horrendous rates.  Hardly a day goes by that I dont hear some 
> new testimony as to how poorly the city is managed, and how corrupt 
> the entire public system in Chicago is. Crime, theft, corruption, 
> murders, graft, cheating, lousy education system, and a vile wintry 
> climate that poses the question of why anyone willing would  live 
> there.  I suppose Chicagoans must enjoy crime and corruption because 
> they never seem to do anything to improve the situation.  
> Unfortunately, that armpit of a city forms the largest population base 
> in the state, and therefore essentially dominates much of what we do 
> even though Chicago is more than a 100 miles away.
>
> Barbara kessel wrote:
>
> *Mayor Daley calls Supreme Court gun Ban Reversal a 'very frightening 
> decision'*
>
> http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-supreme-court-gun-ban,0,3522044.story
>
> This issue relates to the issue raised about police sitting on their 
> hands while murder (read "street crime" ) goes up. This kind of murder 
> is more preventable than "crimes of passion," and gun laws are one 
> piece of the puzzle. Police policy is another piece. 
> B Kessel
>
>  
>  
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>   
>  
>  
>   
>  
> _______________________________________________
> Peace-discuss mailing list
> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net <mailto:Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
> http://lists.chambana.net/cgi-bin/listinfo/peace-discuss
>   
>
>  
>
>  
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>   
>  
> _______________________________________________
> Peace-discuss mailing list
> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net <mailto:Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
> http://lists.chambana.net/cgi-bin/listinfo/peace-discuss
>   
>
>  
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/archive/peace-discuss/attachments/20080708/fae1ec70/attachment.htm