[Prairiegreens-org] Re: [Peace-discuss] Inclusive Presidential Debates

[John W.]

On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 1:33 AM, C. G. Estabrook <galliher at uiuc.edu> wrote:

And you manage to denigrate the "'average' American" for her/his opinion of
> a foreign office holder -- without noticing who's putting that opinion
> about.
>
> I couldn't ask for a better illustration of the sort of blaming the victim
> that your criticism of the US populace is based on. --CGE


I blame the "victim", Carl, not for "putting an opinion about" - hell, the
entire American culture  "puts about" the opinion of Ahmadinejad as Satan,
not just some university president - but for being so consistently and
predictably gullible.  Not learning from history is a mark of stupidity.
Period.




> John W. wrote:


>  On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 10:43 PM, C. G. Estabrook <galliher at uiuc.edu<mailto:
>> galliher at uiuc.edu>> wrote:
>>
>>    I thought it was the Average American President of Columbia
>>    University who instructed us on that point.
>>
>>
>> You manage to be catty even when I'm agreeing with you, Carl.  :-)  I
>> confess to being  uninformed on this particular point.  It's entirely
>> possible.  You've never heard me claim any special enlightenment for
>> presidents of American universities.  American universities are essentially
>> corporations that sell a product which is education, and the presidents are
>> their CEOs.  They engage in propaganda to sell their product, and to
>> perpetuate the mythology of their specialness as institutions of cultural
>> enlightenment.
>>
>>
>>
>>    John W. wrote:
>>
>>
>>        I'd love to see this.  In fact, Ahmadinejad has already had such
>>        "debates" with American leaders in the media.  And he
>>        wins....though you couldn't prove it by the "average" American,
>>        who thinks that Ahmadinejad is Satan.
>>
>>
>>        On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 9:37 PM, C. G. Estabrook
>>        <galliher at uiuc.edu <mailto:galliher at uiuc.edu>
>>        <mailto:galliher at uiuc.edu <mailto:galliher at uiuc.edu>>> wrote:
>>
>>           [If not "truly inclusive," this would be at least more inclusive
>>           than any other so far proposed.  I await The Nation's
>>        enthusiastic
>>           acceptance.  --CGE]
>>
>>                  Iran's Ahmadinejad challenges Obama, McCain to debate
>>                    Jul 8 08:11 AM US/Eastern
>>
>>           Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on Tuesday challenged the
>>           candidates vying for the US presidency to a debate and called
>> for
>>           "fundamental change" in the next US government.
>>
>>           Ahmadinejad said he would be willing to meet with Democratic
>>           candidate Barack Obama, who has taken fire from his opponents
>>        over
>>           his offer to talk -- if elected president -- with the leaders of
>>           several US foes including Iran.
>>
>>           "I announce my readiness to meet with all the (US presidential)
>>           candidates of the United States in front of the media," the
>>        Iranian
>>           president told a press conference at the D8 summit of developing
>>           nations.
>>
>>           "To build confidence in the region (we need) to have fundamental
>>           change in the next US government," he added. Ahmadinejad has
>>           previously challenged Bush to a debate at the United Nations.
>>
>>           The Iranian leader also called for United States military bases
>>           across the world to be "eradicated".
>>
>>           "The greatest threat in the Middle East and to countries in the
>>           world is US intervention," he said. "The military bases in
>>        the whole
>>           world should be eradicated and removed."
>>
>>           Ahmadinejad, who is embroiled in a wrangle with the West over
>>        Iran's
>>           nuclear enrichment programme, called on the major powers to
>>           "withdraw from animosity and hostile actions against us".
>>
>>           "Justice, peace and friendship is also to their benefit," he
>>        said.
>>
>>           He reiterated that his country would not pull back from its
>>        nuclear
>>           ambitions and called on Washington to withdraw its troops
>>        from Iraq.
>>
>>           "No one in Iran will go back from our nuclear position," he
>> said.
>>           "We want dialogue for the benefit of all sides but within the
>>           framework of law and justice"
>>
>>           "To rebuild confidence, the US must withdraw its forces from
>> Iraq
>>           and allow the fate of the people of Iraq and regional
>>        countries to
>>           be written by the hands of their own people," he said.
>>
>>           Copyright AFP 2008.
>>
>>
>> http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080708121056.0qkkhodl&show_article=1
>>        <
>> http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080708121056.0qkkhodl&show_article=1
>> >
>>                 <
>> http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080708121056.0qkkhodl&show_article=1
>>        <
>> http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080708121056.0qkkhodl&show_article=1
>> >>
>>
>>
>>           Walter Pituc wrote:
>>
>>               Here is a good piece by the The Nation about the need for
>>        truly
>>               inclusive Presidential debates...
>>
>>
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