[Prairiegreens-org] Re: [Peace-discuss] Inclusive PresidentialDebates

Thu Jul 10 09:29:21 CDT 2008

I'm reminded of a very good quote:

*When the people lead, the leaders will follow*

-Walter

On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 7:31 AM, unionyes <unionyes at ameritech.net> wrote:

>  !981 was the year Ronald Reagan took office, which began the
> institutional assualt by corporate interests against our ;
> Standard of Living ( distribution of income, social services, workers wages
> and benefits, de-regulation of the media, airlines, trucking,etc., )
> Re-emergence of a bellicose and imperialistic foreign policy,
> The begining of the chiping away of our civil liberties, and the list goes
> on.
>
> I had my differences with the presidetial policies of Jimmy Carter, but
> from 1975 -1980 things were begining to finally head in the correct
> direction in this country after Watergate, the Vietnam war, etc.
> Until the the corporate forces and the right-wing began to re-group and
> helped get Ronald Reagan elected. The corporate media had a significant role
> in this ( after they had a few shinning moments in the early 1970's with The
> Pentagon Papers, Watergate investigation, the coverage ofThe Church Committe
> Hearings ).
> When the Iranian hostage crisis began and the then oil price crisis ( which
> is nothing compared to now ), every single night on the news ; day 72, day
> 145, day 271, the entire time the hostages were held, blaming Jimmy Carter
> for incompetence, etc.
> Compare that to the softening and defense of Bush or even Ronald Reagan at
> the time by the media.
>
> Anyway, the election of Ronald Reagan began a corporate offensive against
> us and our institutions which has continued without interuption, yes even
> under Clinton, and as far as I can tell will continue under Obama.
>
> Don't get me wrong, I hope Obama does beat McCain, but as far as
> fundamental " CHANGE " for the better for the average citizen of this
> country, Obama is NOT going to save us.
> He will only do the right thing if WE force him to !
>
> David J.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* John W. <jbw292002 at gmail.com>
> *To:* jencart13 at yahoo.com
> *Cc:* unionyes <unionyes at ameritech.net> ; Peace-discuss List<peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 10, 2008 1:51 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Prairiegreens-org] Re: [Peace-discuss] Inclusive
> PresidentialDebates
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 1:13 AM, Jenifer Cartwright <jencart13 at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>    David J,
>>
>> Yes, an excellent (and depressing) summary. What did you mean by, "And
>> then people wonder why nothing has changed for the better in this country
>> since 1981." What was going on in 1981?
>>
>>  --Jenifer
>>
>
> Probably the most significant thing is that Reagan took office.
>
>
>
>
>>
>> --- On *Wed, 7/9/08, John W. <jbw292002 at gmail.com>* wrote:
>>
>> From: John W. <jbw292002 at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Prairiegreens-org] Re: [Peace-discuss] Inclusive
>> PresidentialDebates
>> To: "unionyes" <unionyes at ameritech.net>
>> Cc: "Peace-discuss List" <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>> Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 9:55 PM
>>
>>
>> Excellent summary, Dave.  You're absolutely right.
>>
>> John W.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 4:21 PM, unionyes <unionyes at ameritech.net> wrote:
>>
>>  Walter is absolutely correct, when he gives the example of Europe and
>>> other countries outside of Europe.
>>>
>>> In Germany ( the country I know the most about since my wife is a German
>>> National ) and most other Western European countries, elections are
>>> significantly more " free and fair ".
>>> For Instance ;
>>>
>>> 1) Everyone is AUTOMATICALY a registered voter the day they turn 18.
>>>
>>> 2) Elections are held on Sunday, when 95 % of people do not work.
>>>
>>> 3) It is illegal for candidates to buy radio and television ads. All
>>> candidates are given the same air-time via candidate panel discussions every
>>> Sunday for up to six weeks before the elections.
>>>
>>> 4) Last but not least, there is proportional representation, usually with
>>> a 5% threshhold ( a political party receives 5.5 % of the votes, they get
>>> 5.5 % of the seats in the parliament or congress.
>>>
>>> Compare that to what we have here.
>>>
>>> We DO NOT have a democracy. We have the illusion of a democracy with the
>>> choices made for us, as to which two candidates are acceptable to corporate
>>> interests. This is accomplished via corporate campaign contributions, which
>>> buys air time ( no money, no air time ).
>>>
>>> We have a corporate controlled media that benefits financially from the
>>> candidate purchased ads and a psuedo public radio / televion network that is
>>> also primarily controlled by corporate money.
>>>
>>> We have a Presidential Debates Commission that is a private corporation
>>> controlled by the DNC and the RNC, that has the " right " to exclude anyone
>>> they want.
>>> Remember, until the 2000 elections, the debates were conducted by the
>>> League of Women Voters.
>>>
>>> We have massive voter disenfranchisement and obstacles to register to
>>> vote. Every state with different laws and no federal rights to vote.
>>>
>>> And since the 2000 election, massive voting fraud via electronic voting
>>> machines, that are also corporate controlled. Election officials cannot
>>> access the machines under penalty of fines and prosecution.
>>>
>>> On top of all this, there is the daily exclusion, distortion, etc. by the
>>> corporate media of facts about issues, whats going on in other countries in
>>> regards to how they have solved certian problems that we currently have,
>>> etc..
>>> Then when a candidate does come along that refuses corporate money and is
>>> willing to speak out about real issues, and is getting some support in the
>>> populace, you get the constant spin, over and over and over again, that said
>>> candidate " doesn't have a chance to win " , which then becomes a
>>> self-fulfilled prophecy with the electorate, thanks to the so called " news
>>> programs ".
>>>
>>> Unfortunately the Nazi Propoganda Minister Goebels was right, when he
>>> said ; " A lie repeated often enough, will eventually be accepted as the
>>> truth by most people. "
>>>
>>> I don't mean to be pestimistic, but this is our reality. And then people
>>> wonder why nothing has changed for the better in this country since 1981.
>>>
>>> David J.
>>>
>>  ------------------------------
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