[Peace-discuss] Bush admin torture policy

[John W.]

On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 10:22 PM, C. G. Estabrook <galliher at uiuc.edu> wrote:

John, you're the one who believes what the media tell you about what
> Americans believe, instead of what the folks who've actually asked them say.
> (Or maybe it comes from your deep immersion in the American soul, of which
> the rest of us are so sadly deprived.) --CGE


Your snide, sarcastic, effete response, Carl, is, of course, the truth, at
least as regards the contrast between you and me.  I don't presume to speak
for the rest of the readers of this list.

On the one hand we have me:  Spent the first 24 years of my life in a
working class neighborhood on the south side of Chicago.  Went to an
"integrated" Chicago public high school followed by - yes, the Ivy League
education that you're so fond of bringing up, which slightly improved my
vocabulary but precious little else.   Spent the next 20 years in a blue
collar factory town in central Illinois, whose principal industries were
International Harvester, Caterpillar, and strip mining.  Worked as a
Teamster, a farm laborer, a service station attendant, a "landscape
maintenance technician", an exterminator, and a firefighter.  There wasn't a
white collar person to be found anywhere with the exception of a handful of
doctors, lawyers, and I.H. management.  Had I not been married to a doctor
and had two doctors as best friends, I would have had absolutely no idea how
that segment of the population lived and thought.  But I did and I
do....PLUS the factory workers and the coal miners and the construction
laborers and the police and firefighters.

On the other hand we have you:  Grew up privileged, went to a prep school
followed by a lengthy stay at Harvard while accumulating three degrees.
Spent his entire adult life as a professor.  Gets all of his information
from books.  And presumes to have his finger on the pulse of the "average"
American more than I do.

Well, I leave it to the readers of this list to judge which of us is more in
touch with reality.  It doesn't matter to me, ultimately.  I just think it
remarkable, your unshakeable conceit that AWARE in general, and you in
particular, are somehow in a position to "educate" the vast hordes of
"average" Americans who listen to Rush Limbaugh, watch FOX news, and believe
with all of their shallow "Christian" hearts that Israel can do no wrong
because the Jews are God's chosen people, for once and all time.

The irony is that you and I agree on so many political issues, and you do
keep ME somewhat informed through your frequent bloviations on this list.
But the "average" American?  You and s/he are on different planets, and all
the polls in the world aren't going to give you a fucking clue.  You're that
walking cliche, the Ivory Tower intellectual, the educated idiot, the guy
who learned more and more about less and less until he ended up knowing
everything about nothing.

Carry on, MacDuff.  Or whatever the fuck that Shakespeare fellow said.




> John W. wrote:
>

>  Absolutely right, Laurie.  Even Scott Ritter, who is well known to just
>> about everyone on this list, is not by any means a household name in the
>> vast majority of American households.  Ditto Amy Goodman, Norman
>> Finkelstein, et all.  This AWARE list comprises a terribly rarefied group.
>>
>> There are also different educational contexts.  A parade float is
>> inappropriate for anything but the very broadest and shallowest of
>> educational constructs.
>>
>> Carl, you really, really, really need to get out among the fellaheen more.
>>
>> John Wason
>>
>
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