[Peace-discuss] Uncle Noam on the BBC

[C. G. Estabrook]

"...The analogy to Kennedy is perfect.  That is, we don't aim for Obama to 
become Kennedy; we aim for Obama's supporters to push forward with the raised 
expectations and the energy that carried Kennedy's supporters (some of them) 
into the movements that as Chomsky says raised the moral standards of this 
country beyond what they had been for years..."

But that was done not because of Kennedy but against him.

After one of the most dishonest election campaigns in the 20th century (a tough 
standard) -- he knew that the "missile gap" with the USSR was a lie -- Kennedy 
became president as the result of a close election that was more clearly stolen 
(in IL and TX) than those of 2000 and 2004.  His inaugural address was a 
semi-fascist renewal of the Cold War, which his administration put into action 
by establishing death squads in Latin America ("internal security") and 
attacking South Vietnam (napalm on villages), because these peoples resisted the 
governments that the US had picked out for them, and it would be a bad example 
of the US let them to get away with it ("the domino theory").

Kennedy's policies (his administration pioneered "unconventional warfare" from 
the Green Berets to the Phoenix program) made it at least metaphorically correct 
for Malcolm X to say that Kennedy's assassination was "chickens coming home to 
roost."

"The movements that as Chomsky says raised the moral standards of this country 
beyond what they had been for years" were constructed directly in opposition to 
the policies of Kennedy and his successors.  Those movements are what are 
usually meant by "the Sixties."

But I agree that it would be worthwhile to have such movements today.  --CGE


Ricky Baldwin wrote:
> I think we've left it up to our so-called leaders long enough.  I think we
> have to realize that we are not children, not helpless babes in cradles,
> whose only hope to scream and cry if we do not get what we want.  It's time
> we took some responsibility for turning things around. That is not letting
> anyone "off the hook".  Just the opposite.  It's about being forthright and
> assertive about what we expect - or rather demand - out of our elected
> representatives.
> 
> Karen is right.  There is a helluva lot that Obama said he would do that we
> do not want him to do.  What we want him to live up to is the hopes and
> dreams and aspirations of the people who elected him, regardless of his
> repeated explanations that he was not about that.  The analogy to Kennedy is
> perfect.  That is, we don't aim for Obama to become Kennedy; we aim for
> Obama's supporters to push forward with the raised expectations and the
> energy that carried Kennedy's supporters (some of them) into the movements
> that as Chomsky says raised the moral standards of this country beyond what
> they had been for years.
> 
> Bob asks the crucial question: how to get that message to Obama.  I think
> it's a safe bet that he and his advisers read the newspapers and watch tv.
> That's one way.  There are also these petitions and letters that Just Foreign
> Policy and J Street, and probably others, are organizing.  Barbara is right:
> there is no time to lose.  That doesn't mean we drag out the Impeach Obama
> signs.  Just the opposite.  That makes it too easy to marginalize our points.
> We lead with our strong suit: we talk about real problems and real solutions
> - what's wrong with leaving any troops in Iraq, what's wrong with expanding
> the war in 'AfPak', emphasize the value of "diplomacy" and more importantly
> peace and social justice.
> 
> It's up to us to get that stuff out.  Unless we prefer to sit by while it all
> goes to hell so we can say I told you so.
> 
> Ricky
> 
> "Only those who do nothing make no mistakes." - Peter Kropotkin
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
> *From:* LAURIE SOLOMON <LAURIE at ADVANCENET.NET> *To:*
> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net *Sent:* Thursday, November 6, 2008 12:36:29
> PM *Subject:* FW: [Peace-discuss] Uncle Noam on the BBC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Subject:* RE: [Peace-discuss] Uncle Noam on the BBC
> 
> 
> 
>> I think the Chomsky point is that it is a great opening moment for the
> People and for organizers of people, a point also made by Naomi Klein (on
> >October 29) who said, "Obama is a Centrist. It is up to us to move the
> Center."  Even were he to be better than our fears, he cannot fail to
> disappoint >because the size of the mess he steps into.
> 
> 
> 
> While I agree that this may be an opening and that if you move the center
> Obama and other Centrists will probably follow, I think that the above
> statements and statements like this tend to get Obama and his administration
> as well as the Centrists in and out of Congress off the hook by shifting
> responsibility for anything which does not change in a 
> progressive/reformist/liberal/leftist direction to the People rather than
> placing the responsibility where it belongs on Obama and his supporters and
> Administration.  I think the people who put their faith and hope in Obama as
> the new opportunity for change should hold his feet to the fire for each and
> every thing – big or little – that he does not do or does differently from
> how he represented himself throughout the campaign, allowing for no excuses,
> rationalizations for failures to do so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *From:* peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net 
> [mailto:peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net] *On Behalf Of *Barbara 
> kessel *Sent:* Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:42 AM *To:*
> kmedina at illinois.edu *Cc:* peace discuss *Subject:* Re: [Peace-discuss] Uncle
> Noam on the BBC
> 
> 
> 
> I think the Chomsky point is that it is a great opening moment for the People
> and for organizers of people, a point also made by Naomi Klein (on October
> 29) who said, "Obama is a Centrist. It is up to us to move the Center."  Even
> were he to be better than our fears, he cannot fail to disappoint because the
> size of the mess he steps into.
> 
> We need now to "stretch the map" of anti-war protestors. Just because 64% of
> the voters said that their top issue was the economy and 10% said it was the
> war does not mean that these issues remain unrelated in all the minds of that
> 64%. True Anecdote: 84 year old father of a friend of mine, who is a veteran
> of WWII, a stone racist, always voted Republican, cast his first Democratic
> vote for Obama saying to his grown children, "I am sick and tired of seeing
> the government throwing our money away on useless and unnecessary wars."
> Barbara Kessel
> 
> On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 11:12 AM, Karen Medina <kmedina at illinois.edu 
> <mailto:kmedina at illinois.edu>> wrote:
> 
>> The Prophet [Noam] says: what matters is what people do with their
> 
> disappointment when Obama fails to meet their expectations.
> 
> I think the best thing Obama can do is hire the best cabinet possible to do
> the real work and he be the negotiator between the groups. He's smart enough
> and there is some evidence that he just might find the humility to do this.
> 
> He should take on one thing himself: universal healthcare would be a good
> choice.
> 
> My worst fear is that he appoints only centrists and the right to his 
> cabinet. He has a mandate to move left, but he may not be able to recognize
> it. He has a tendency to overcompensate to the right.
> 
> -karen medina