[Peace-discuss] [Fwd: [ronpaul-207] "Compulsory universal service"
for ages 18-25]
E. Wayne Johnson
ewj at pigs.ag
Tue Nov 11 14:05:14 CST 2008
The military is a top-down outfit. Although your arguments do have some
merit,
I would not expect that changing the flavour of the cannon fodder is going
to change the attributes of the devourers.
We had a neighbour who went to the Dominican Republic in the 1960's with
the Army's 82nd Airborne.
The US thought it needed to Police the World even back then.
He came back from the army pretty badly messed up and never quite became
normal.
He was a smart guy and non-conventional in his thinking and I always
liked talking to him. He
complained of nightmares. He dated a nice lady who really cared about
him but they
were never able to establish a stable relationship. He farmed and had
cattle but
finally went bankrupt after a few years success.
Karen Medina wrote:
> Wayne,
>
> I actually agree with you, that compulsory service is usually counter-productive.
>
> But I do not know of a way that would make the military less of an economic
> draft and therefore more equitably spread.
>
> There are plenty of kids out there who think they have no other chance in life
> than to take the offer that the recruiters offer them. And their parents also
> believe this is true.
>
> One day that I was working the AWARE table, my high school science teacher
> came up and gave me a hug. We talked for awhile, catching up. And we talked
> about the wars. He told me he was very proud of me being a peace activist. He
> is the most peaceful person I have ever met.
>
> My friend and I also share the Dominican Republic. I lived in the Dominican
> Republic as a Peace Corps Volunteer in the 1980's. He was there in 1965 as a
> US Marine.
>
> As we discussed his grandchildren, he mentioned his granddaughter who was
> just graduating from high school in Montana. She had planned to join the
> military in order to pay for college. She wanted to take food and medical
> supplies to countries that were hit by hurricanes. She wanted to help people.
> And he had encouraged her to do this. But not now. Not since the US had started
> all this nonsense. She was going to have to find some other way to get money
> for college.
>
> I know I see the US's meddling in the DR from a different perspective. But this
> man, this grandfather, this ex-Marine, he taught me what peace is. He is a great
> man. with a granddaughter who is looking for a way to help people and to help
> her go to college.
>
> If we all had to serve in the military, we would change what the military does.
> We would have a stake in it. The military would not be made up of a bunch of
> violent misfits, it would be made up of people.
>
> -karen medina
>
>
>
> ---- Original message ----
>
>> Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 10:25:39 -0600
>> From: "E. Wayne Johnson" <ewj at pigs.ag>
>> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [Fwd: [ronpaul-207] "Compulsory universal
>>
> service" for ages 18-25]
>
>> To: kmedina at illinois.edu
>> Cc: Peace-discuss List <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>>
>> I am not much for compulsory anything except love
>> and respect for the fellow man,
>> and I am told that even that works only when it is
>> voluntary.
>>
>> Karen Medina wrote:
>>
>> Only military service? What if the 18-25 year olds could choose service to the
>>
> poor or service to the military?
>
>> Personally, I would have them do both. Service to the poor should come first -
>>
> - and it could actually start younger in high school, maybe over the summer
> break. Military service should wait till 18.
>
>> And I would include compulsery language immersion -- I find it terribly
>>
> embarrassing that so few Americans are not trained in another language.
>
>> RE: remuneration
>> In the Peace Corps, the pay is related to the average pay of a host-country
>>
> professional working in the same town where the volunteer is stationed rather
> than the pay of a person in the US. That way volunteers were less likely to spend
> the higher-than-the-neighbors salary like filthy American tourists. Though
> some volunteers still managed that sort of spending.
>
>> -karen medina
>>
>> ---- Original message ----
>>
>>
>> Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2008 23:25:09 -0600
>> From: "C. G. Estabrook" <galliher at uiuc.edu>
>> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [Fwd: [ronpaul-207] "Compulsory universal
>>
> service" for ages 18-25]
>
>> To: "E. Wayne Johnson" <ewj at pigs.ag>
>> Cc: Peace-discuss List <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>>
>> Wayne--
>>
>> Instead of opposing this, we should support it -- with improvements.
>>
>> Here's how it would work. Young people will know that between the ages of
>> eighteen and twenty-five, the nation will enlist them for three months of
>>
> service.
>
>> Such service shall be remunerated with a living wage, defined as the annual
>> amount necessary to support a family, acquire a residence, transportation,
>>
> etc.
>
>> After the initial three months, such adequately-remunerated work may be
>>
> resumed
>
>> at any point of the citizen's choosing, and for as long as s/he may wish.
>>
>> Such service shall include military service.
>>
>> The manner in which tasks are accomplished shall be determined
>>
> democratically by
>
>> those engaged in them. Notably, labor may be withdrawn with no loss of pay
>>
> when
>
>> the task violates the conscience of the worker -- by, e.g., environmental
>> destruction, military devastation, etc.
>>
>> I'm sure you can think of other improvements. I'm also sure that we agree
>>
> that
>
>> an anarchist society has to be a highly organized one. (Anarchism doesn't
>>
> mean
>
>> no rules -- just no rulers.)
>>
>> Regards, CGE
>>
>>
>>
>> E. Wayne Johnson wrote:
>>
>>
>> -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [ronpaul-207] "Compulsory
>> universal service" for ages 18-25 Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 21:58:56 -0500
>>
> From:
>
>> Kurt Fiech <kfiech at hotmail.com> Reply-To: ronpaul-207 at meetup.com
>>
> To:
>
>> ronpaul-207 at meetup.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Obama's chief of staff choice favors compulsory universal service
>>
>> Rep. Rahm Emanuel <http://www.house.gov/emanuel/photos.shtml> of
>>
> Illinois,
>
>> President-Elect Barack Obama's choice for chief of staff in his incoming
>> administration, is co-author of a book, /The Plan: Big Ideas for America/
>> <http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1586484125/>, that calls for, among
>>
> other
>
>> things, compulsory service for all Americans ages 18 to 25. The following
>> excerpt is from pages 61-62 of the 2006 book:
>>
>> It's time for a real Patriot Act that brings out the patriot in all of us. We
>> propose universal civilian service for every young American. Under this plan,
>> All Americans between the ages of eighteen and twenty-five will be asked to
>> serve their country by going through three months of basic training, civil
>> defense preparation and community service. ... Here's how it would work.
>> Young people will know that between the ages of eighteen and twenty-five,
>>
> the
>
>> nation will enlist them for three months of civilian service. They'll be
>> asked to report for three months of basic civil defense training in their
>> state or community, where they will learn what to do in the event of
>> biochemical, nuclear or conventional attack; how to assist others in an
>> evacuation; how to respond when a levee breaks or we're hit by a natural
>> disaster. These young people will be available to address their communities'
>> most pressing needs.
>>
>> Emanuel and co-author Bruce Reed insist "this is not a draft," but go on to
>> write of young men and women, "the nation will enlist them for three months
>> of civilian service." They also warn, "[s]ome Republicans will squeal about
>> individual freedom," ruling out any likelihood that they would let people opt
>> out of universal citizen service.
>>
>> As chief of staff, Emanuel will not be in a position to directly introduce
>> public policy, but his enthusiasm for compulsory service, combined with
>> Barack Obama's own plan to require high school students to perform 50
>>
> hours
>
>> of government-approved service
>> <http://www.examiner.com/x-536-Civil-Liberties-
>>
> Examiner%7Ey2008m9d17-The-plausibly-deniable-draft--Obamas-very-
> modern-take-on-national-service>,
>
>> suggest an unfortunate direction for the new administration.
>>
>>
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>
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