[Peace-discuss] Christians, war and torture

[John W.]

On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 10:56 AM, Ricky Baldwin <baldwinricky at yahoo.com>wrote:

Interesting poll results, Mort.  Thanks for posting it.  Disturbing.  But I
> have to say I'd read the results somewhat differently than this guy does -
> he may be bringing some baggage to the analysis, like frustrated with his
> coreligionists in particular.  I don't know.
>
> But the first thing I noticed was that the poll victims were all white.


That's what I noticed first too.  On many issues, white evangelicals think
very differently from mainline Protestants and Catholics.  The biggest
common denominator here seems to be whiteness, and the perceived
non-whiteness of the "terrorists" who are being tortured.  It was the same
in Nazi Germany; it was primarily the "other", the "non-whites" - Jews, and
gypsies - who were being exterminated.

White people think of themselves - as a group - as law-abiding, with a great
deal (of unrecognized privilege) to protect from the unwashed hordes of
non-whites.



>   It could just be that it's more a phenomenon of white culture, and that
> religion just isn't a factor.  Of course, since the poll doesn't include
> people who ain't (white, that is), it could be just Americans.  It does seem
> that 'we' are in a minority.  Witness the support for police tasers locally,
> for example, despite the fact that it is a torture device (pain compliance).
>
> This has been going on for some time in our culture.  I noticed it first
> (ok, I was naive before) several years ago when there was an actual national
> debate among intellectuals and other folks about the novel (at the time)
> practice of police inserting needles under the fingernails of e.g.
> nonviolent protesters, pepper-spray, and other pain-compliance methods used
> when mass arrests were being thwarted by means of the protesters handcuffing
> themselves together, etc.
>
> We who reject such brutality have along uphill climb.  In my opinion, our
> weakness is the level of organization of the other side.  Consequently there
> is, in general, only one effective response: organize our side (not just our
> friends).


And have courage.  Practice civil disobedience.



> My 2c again.
> Ricky


And worth every penny!  :-)





> "Speak your mind even if your voice shakes." - Maggie Kuhn
>
> --- On *Sat, 8/1/09, Brussel Morton K. <mkbrussel at comcast.net>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Brussel Morton K. <mkbrussel at comcast.net>
> Subject: [Peace-discuss] Christians, war and torture
> To: "Peace-discuss Peace-discuss" <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
> Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 2:34 PM
>
>
> Opening lines by by Catholic Ray McGovern:
> 'Christians' Wink at Torture
>
> by Ray McGovern
>
> Anyone harboring doubts that the institutional Church is riding shotgun for
> the system, even regarding heinous sin like torture, should be chastened by
> the results of a recent survey by the Pew Research Center.
>
> Who but the cowardly crew leading the "Christian" churches can be held
> responsible for the fact that many of their flock believe torture of
> suspected terrorists is "justified?"
>
> Those polled were white non-Hispanic Catholics, white Evangelicals, and
> white mainline Protestants. A majority (54 percent) of those who attend
> church regularly said torture could be "justified," while a majority of
> those not attending church regularly responded that torture was rarely or
> never justified.
>
> I am not a psychologist or sociologist. But I recall that one of the first
> things Hitler did on assuming power was to ensure there was a pastor in
> every Lutheran and Catholic parish in Germany. Why? Because he calculated,
> correctly, that this would be a force for stability for his regime. Thus
> began horrid chapter in the history of those who profess to be followers of
> Jesus of Nazareth but forget his repeated admonition, Do not be afraid.
>
> A mere seven decades after the utter failure of most church leaders in
> Germany, their current American counterparts have again yielded to fear, and
> have condoned evils like torture by their deafening silence.…
>
>
> More follows; see  http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/08/01-4
>
>
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