FW: [Peace-discuss] Fw: Lou Dobbs is dangerous

[LAURIE SOLOMON]

While I do not entirely disagree with you on this Carl, I do think there are
certain special occasions in which freedom of speech and action are and
should be limited (i.e., screaming "fire" in a crowded theater); but clearly
a precisely stated standard like "speech and actions that present a provable
clear and present danger of inciting others to take actions that create a
provable and clear danger or in themselves create such a clear and provable
danger" should be established and used in exercising both prior and
after-the-fact censorship, which should be determined in a court of law with
rights to appeal.  I think that this holds for all categories of speech and
action including "hate speech."

In reference to the subject line, " Lou Dobbs is dangerous," we are all
dangerous.  All the animals are equally dangerous; but some are more
effective than others in being dangerous.

-----Original Message-----
From: peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net
[mailto:peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net] On Behalf Of C. G.
Estabrook
Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 11:21 AM
To: Jenifer Cartwright
Cc: Peace-discuss List
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Fw: Lou Dobbs is dangerous

You seem to ascribe a mystical power to "listening to hate speech": like the
Shadow, it seems to have the power to cloud men's minds...  And on that
basis
you would ban it, apparently.

In fact, constructing a category of "hate speech" (who decides what belongs
in
the category?) and then banning it is clearly contrary to the First
Amendment.

The analogy between Dobbs and Goodman -- they disagree in most of what they
say
  -- is formal, not material.  Stopping anyone from speaking on the basis of
the
content of their speech is censorship.  --CGE

Jenifer Cartwright wrote:
> Pretty obvious that those listening to hate speech (including those on
this
> list) lose their ability to differentiate betw dissent and hate/hateful
> speech. The Amy Goodman-Lou Dobbs analogy is a good example of how that
can
> happen. --Jenifer
> 
> --- On *Wed, 8/12/09, unionyes /<unionyes at ameritech.net>/* wrote:
> 
> 
> From: unionyes <unionyes at ameritech.net> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Fw:
Lou
> Dobbs is dangerous To: "C. G. Estabrook" <galliher at illinois.edu> Cc:
> "Peace-discuss List" <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> Date: Wednesday,
> August 12, 2009, 4:58 PM
> 
> Carl,
> 
> I usually agree with most of your points and analysis, but how you can
claim
> ANY similarities between Lou Dobbs ( and his promotion of racism against
> Mexicans and now inciting violence against those who want a watered down
> public healthcare option ) and Amy Goodman is beyond me !
> 
> David Johnson
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "C. G. Estabrook"
<galliher at illinois.edu 
> <http://us.mc449.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=galliher@illinois.edu>> To:
> "Jenifer Cartwright" <jencart13 at yahoo.com 
> <http://us.mc449.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=jencart13@yahoo.com>> Cc:
> "Peace-discuss" <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net 
>
<http://us.mc449.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=peace-discuss@lists.chambana.n
et>>
>  Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 3:02 PM Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Fw:
> Lou Dobbs is dangerous
> 
> 
>> If this were about Amy Goodman, we'd regard it as an attempt at
> censorship.
>> 
>> 
>> Jenifer Cartwright wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --- On *Tue, 8/11/09, Jim Dean, Democracy for America
> /<info at democracyforamerica.com 
>
<http://us.mc449.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=info@democracyforamerica.com>>
/*
>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: Jim Dean, Democracy for America
> <info at democracyforamerica.com 
>
<http://us.mc449.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=info@democracyforamerica.com>>

> Subject:
>>> Lou Dobbs is dangerous To: jencart13 at yahoo.com
> <http://us.mc449.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=jencart13@yahoo.com> Date:
> Tuesday, August 11,
>>> 2009, 2:21 PM
>>> 
>>> Jenifer -
>>> 
>>> It's time to get Lou Dobbs and his hate speech off the air.
>>> 
>>> Yesterday, our friends at /Media Matters for America/, who are
> dedicated to
>>> comprehensively monitoring, analyzing, and correcting conservative 
>>> misinformation in the U.S. media, caught Lou Dobbs promoting
> hate and
>>> inciting violence towards Governor Howard Dean.
>>> 
>>> With violence from right-wing extremist groups on the rise and
> Republican
>>> backed mobs hanging cardboard versions of members of congress in
> effigy, Lou
>>> Dobbs' statement is dangerous.. Enough is enough.
>>> 
>>> It's time for CNN and the United Stations Radio Network to fire
> Lou Dobbs. Call Now and demand Lou Dobbs be taken off the air 
> <http://dfa2.convio.net/site/R?i=R0TlwMzgXX7kD7BRD8xOtA...> *WATCH THE
CLIP
>>> AND GET THE NUMBERS TO CALL NOW
> <http://dfa2.convio.net/site/R?i=jHAUT1gq_X1Hc10eJFtoBQ..> *
>>> 
>>> 
>>> This isn't the first time Lou Dobbs has used the air waves to
> promote hate
>>> and embarrass CNN.
>>> 
>>> His relentless promotion of debunked, racially charged
> conspiracy theories
>>> about President Obama's birth certificate have already seriously
> damaged
>>> CNN's credibility. Yet, Lou Dobbs remains on the air.
>>> 
>>> Now, he's gone too far. He's not just making CNN look bad, he's
> inciting
>>> violence to stop Governor Dean from fighting for President
> Obama's health
>>> insurance option. That's not just un-American, it's
> irresponsible and
>>> dangerous.
>>> 
>>> It's up to us to make sure CNN and the United Stations Radio
> Network know
>>> we've had enough.
>>> 
>>> *CALL NOW AND DEMAND LOU DOBBS BE TAKEN OFF THE AIR
> <http://dfa2.convio.net/site/R?i=R0inr8Lzz5A9YYfePW7zcQ..>*
>>> 
>>> This isn't just about my brother Howard; this is about the
> America we all
>>> want to live in.
>>> 
>>> Thank you for everything you do,
>>> 
>>> -Jim
>>> 
>>> Jim Dean, Chair Democracy for America
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Democracy for America relies on you and the people-power of more
> than one
>>> million members to fund the grassroots organizing and training
> that delivers
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>>> 
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