[Peace-discuss] Fw: Lou Dobbs is dangerous
C. G. Estabrook
galliher at illinois.edu
Sun Aug 16 09:25:49 CDT 2009
I think it's to the interest of the corporate media to convince you that your
views are unusual, and that the mass of your fellow citizens are proto-fascists.
I don't think they are. I've not infrequently had people say to me, "I agree
with what you say on News from Neptune, but I thought that I was practically the
only one who thought that way." --CGE
LAURIE SOLOMON wrote:
> Who says I was? I am sure that I am not totally exempt and what exemptions I
> have may come from a set of more or less than ordinary - if not unique -
> biographically determined experience or history. This history may not have
> significantly altered the nature of my character but it did effect the
> content. In short I hate and am prejudiced against different people than
> them and maybe most other Americans, my enemies are different than theirs and
> maybe most other Americans , my fears are different than theirs and maybe
> most other Americans, etc.
>
> -----Original Message----- From: C. G. Estabrook
> [mailto:galliher at illinois.edu] Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 9:43 PM To:
> LAURIE SOLOMON Cc: 'unionyes'; 'Peace-discuss List' Subject: Re:
> [Peace-discuss] Fw: Lou Dobbs is dangerous
>
> How were you able to escape these defects?
>
>
> LAURIE SOLOMON wrote:
>> Very simply and to the point the people of the U.S. , for the most part,
> are
>> and have been inherently all the things that Dobbs, Beck, Hannity,
> Limbaugh
>> et al stand for. They comprise a natural audience for these commentators
> and
>> those like them and, therefore, represent a significant demand for their
> type
>> of commentary, which can be denied and ignored at one’s own peril.
>>
>>
>>
>> To elaborate:
>>
>> If anything these commentators are catering to the inherent racism,
>> intolerance, ethnic bigotry, religious prejudices, social Dawinian
> biases,
>> fearfulness, desires for conformity, love of violence, etc. that is part
> and
>> parcel of America and its people. The people already have these traits
> and
>> have no need for corporations or the corporate establishment to instill,
>> encourage, or bring out such attitudes and values since they pre-existed
> the
>> rise of corporations in the US and of corporate America. Hence, they are
> not
>> the creatures of corporate power, money or spin. To be sure, contemporary
>> corporations make use of the existence of these attitudes and values for
>> their own purposes – often to maintain control over the workings of the
>> society so that it works in their interests – whenever possible. However,
>> the corporate establishment is not the source of these attitudes and
> values.
>> Hence there exists a significantly large native group who hold these and
>> similar values, beliefs, and attitudes which make up a natural audience
> for
>> the Dobbs. Becks et al which create a demand for what Dobbs, beck et al
> are
>> giving them. To deny this or to minimize it is to play ostrich and stick
>> one’s head in the ground.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* unionyes [mailto:unionyes at ameritech.net] *Sent:* Saturday, August
> 15,
>> 2009 8:20 PM *To:* Peace-discuss List; LAURIE SOLOMON *Subject:* Re:
>> [Peace-discuss] Fw: Lou Dobbs is dangerous
>>
>>
>>
>> And your point Laurie in 50 words or less ?
>>
>>
>>
>> David J.
>>
>>
>>
>> P.S. I am NOT trying to be " flippant " or disrespectfull, becaue I truely
>> respect your opinion and knowldge ~!
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> *From:* LAURIE SOLOMON <mailto:LAURIE at ADVANCENET.NET>
>>
>> *To:* 'unionyes' <mailto:unionyes at ameritech.net>
>>
>> *Sent:* Saturday, August 15, 2009 8:12 PM
>>
>> *Subject:* RE: [Peace-discuss] Fw: Lou Dobbs is dangerous
>>
>>
>>
>> I guess that may be where we disagree; I think that there is a tendency to
>> give too little credence to the fact that there is this demand and that it
>> comes from a significant and large segment of the U.S. public who may be
>> guided by corporate spin bought by corporate money but which nonetheless
>> represent and embodies some very fundamental values and beliefs that are
>> actually deeply held by a large number of the American public and masses.
>> American racism, ethnic and religious prejudice, cultural biases against
>> intellectual as opposed to practical education, and fear and hatred of
> new
>> immigrants and people from other countries, intolerance, bigotry, and
> demand
>> for conformity are somethings that preexisted the rise of corporations in
>> America or corporate America. The corporate establishment with its power
> and
>> wealth has been able to use these characteristics of the American public
> to
>> their advantage very effectively in modern times; but it is not the
> source,
>> cause, or grounds for said attitudes, values, or love of violence toward
>> other living creatures and properties. As was once said by Stockley
>> Carmicheal, I believe, “Violence is as American as Apple Pie.” I would
> add
>> that so is lawlessness, intolerance, prejudice, conformity, as well as
>> notions of racial, ethnic, and religious supremacy, as American as apple
>> pie. They all have roots that pre-date the rise of American corporations
> and
>> are part of our cultural and psychological heritage.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* unionyes [mailto:unionyes at ameritech.net] *Sent:* Saturday, August
> 15,
>> 2009 3:05 PM *To:* LAURIE SOLOMON *Subject:* Re: [Peace-discuss] Fw: Lou
>> Dobbs is dangerous
>>
>>
>>
>> It's not so much that ; Lou Dobbs, Rush Limbaugh, etc., have a demand for
>> their shows from a large segment of the U.S. public, but instead is a
>> function of what the corporate advertisers, the rest of corporate america
> and
>> the wealthy right-wing foundations want and will pay for !
>>
>>
>>
>> David J.
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> *From:* LAURIE SOLOMON <mailto:LAURIE at ADVANCENET.NET>
>>
>> *To:* 'Neil Parthun' <mailto:lennybrucefan at gmail.com> ;
>> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>>
>> *Sent:* Saturday, August 15, 2009 10:36 AM
>>
>> *Subject:* RE: [Peace-discuss] Fw: Lou Dobbs is dangerous
>>
>>
>>
>> Whether or not one is engaged in censorship in this case appears to depend
> on
>> one’s referent level being addressed. Your point about Lou Dobbs, the
>> person, may have some merit vis-à-vis the difference between censorship
> and
>> access to the exulted platform of radio & TV; however if you move the
> level
>> of reference up to the radio/TV station level, then one might be seen as
>> engaging in the censorship of the station and its broadcast content.
>>
>>
>>
>> While no one guarantees the right to have a nationally televised show, no
> one
>> guarantees anyone the right to prevent someone from having such a show or,
>> for that matter prevents someone from having such a show. In the case of
>> radio/TV, the air waves allegedly belong to the public to license to
> actors
>> for use. The radio/TV stations and networks are among those actors; and
>> within legally prescribed restrictions they are free to air whatever
> content
>> they see fit, independent of what the public or any portion of the public
>> might desire although in this country that decision is driven by the
> market
>> (audience share and advertising money). Obviously, if one wants to alter
> the
>> legal restrictions, one needs to go through the process of changing the
>> legal framework , statutes, and administrative rules pertaining to the
>> conditions of licensing.
>>
>>
>>
>> If one moves up a level to the ownership and control over the air waves,
>> which belong legally to the public, then I am afraid that those who wish
> to
>> see Dobbs shut down are going to lose for now and in the near future since
>> they do not compose a majority of the public – or enough to force a change
> in
>> the licensing requirements for the stations and their personnel as to the
>> sorts of content that they can air and when. Like the other right-wing
> talk
>> commentators, his station and he appear to have strong national following
>> that support and demand him be given air time and are willing to put their
>> money where their mouths are. That cannot be said for the progressives,
> the
>> left, or even the moderate reformers. If they comprised a significantly
>> large population and if each contributed $5 or $10 each per year for
> purposes
>> of buying advertising on the stations that carry Dobbs, they could
> probably
>> use that as leverage to get the stations to either reel him and other in
> or
>> take them off the air. But it seems that the progressives, the left,
> liberal
>> and moderate reformers would rather hold on to their money or spend it
>> elsewhere and exercise their lungs shouting and crying about him and his
>> content instead.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net
>> [mailto:peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net] *On Behalf Of *Neil
> Parthun
>> *Sent:* Friday, August 14, 2009 10:13 PM *To:* C.G.Estabrook *Cc:*
>> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net *Subject:* Re: [Peace-discuss] Fw: Lou
> Dobbs
>> is dangerous
>>
>>
>>
>> Banning speech and requesting that such speech does not have a
> hyper-exulted
>> platform to amplify it are two very different things.
>>
>>
>>
>> Nobody is saying Lou Dobbs doesn't have a right to say whatever he wants.
> He
>> has that right. However, no person is guaranteed the right to have a
>> nationally televised show to promote their views and perspectives on any
>> topic.
>>
>> Solidarity,
>>
>> -N.
>>
>>
>>
>> Neil Parthun
>>
>> IEA Region 9 Grassroots Political Activist
>>
>> Writer/Facilitator for Champaign-Urbana Public i
>>
>>
>>
>> "Early in life I had learned that if you want something, you had better
> make
>> some noise." - Malcolm X
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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