[Peace-discuss] When You Comin' Back, Red Ryder?

Mon Aug 24 17:18:41 CDT 2009

There are several reasons why that is not going to happen:
First, I do not have any formal or informal connections with the University
and its officialdom nor with the YMCA.  Second, I do not think it is the
sort of thing that a single person will be able to accomplish; and I have
found that when it comes to mobilizing and organizing progressives and
activists my positions and efforts are in the minority and what I seek to do
is either opposed or redirected to something that I am not inclined to
participate in.  Actually, I have found that when it comes to mobilizing,
organizing, and planning any sort of sustainable long range project or
program with members of this progressive, activist, leftist community; it is
like herding cats.
Thirdly, I am having some health problems and will need to undergo a
procedure or two; and the future condition is uncertain with respect to my
future time ability to commit any time, energy, or resources. I do not like
what I view as "activist gadflyism" in which activists flit from one issue
or project to another never spending enough time at any single one to get
anything done or be effective; and given my current situation, to make any
commitments that I may not be able to keep or give my full attention to
would be to become such a gadfly.

-----Original Message-----
From: C. G. Estabrook [mailto:galliher at illinois.edu] 
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 4:55 PM
To: LAURIE SOLOMON
Cc: 'Morton K. Brussel'; 'Peace-discuss'; 'E. Wayne Johnson'
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] When You Comin' Back, Red Ryder?

Good.  Set it up.

LAURIE SOLOMON wrote:
> I do not think that using a one-directional non-interactional TV program
is 
> any way to foster a discussion as contrasted to a lecture where the people
in
> the TV studio preach at and talk to the audience with the audience having
no
> way to carry on a timely conversation involving give and take.  It
certainly
> could furnish a supplement to such a seminar where ongoing discussion
between
> presenters, moderators, and audience takes place; but I doubt if it is a
good
> substitute.
> 
> I also think that a one shot conference or TV program will be of any
lasting 
> impact or have any significant benefits; whereas a semester long seminar 
> meeting  1-3 times a week just might.  I also think that the locations 
> selected where such seminars are to be held as well as the times of those 
> seminars will define the potential nature and scope of the audience that 
> participates.
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net 
> [mailto:peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net] On Behalf Of C. G. 
> Estabrook Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 12:17 PM To: Morton K. Brussel Cc:
> Peace-discuss; E. Wayne Johnson Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] When You
Comin'
> Back, Red Ryder?
> 
> Let's begin by using the local media outlet we have, UPTV.
> 
> Contributors to this thread should make an effort to show up Tuesday at
1pm 
> in the Urbna City Council chambers to discuss it on "AWARE on the Air."
> --CGE
> 
> 
> Morton K. Brussel wrote:
>> The "Why?" of wars and and the militaristic mentality should be a ripe 
>> subject for inquiry at our great universities, but I've not noticed
efforts
>> to illuminate this vital topic for the populations or students here or
>> elsewhere. It would be like a Department of Peace that Kucinich has been
>> advocating. It seems to be too delicate a subject to broach in our
>> institutions. If AWARE were resourceful enough it could conceive of
putting
>> together a conference on the subject.
>> 
>> --mkb
>> 
>> On Aug 24, 2009, at 11:29 AM, Ricky Baldwin wrote:
>> 
>>> Easy to repeat, perhaps ad nauseam.  Harder to demonstrate.
>>> 
>>> I'd argue there was progress through the 1960s and 70s, but as Karen 
>>> points out, these victories are rarely permanent.  Eternal vigilance and
>>> all that.
>>> 
>>> Ricky
>>> 
>>> "Speak your mind even if your voice shakes." - Maggie Kuhn
>>> 
>>> --- On *Sun, 8/23/09, E. Wayne Johnson /<ewj at pigs.ag 
>>> <mailto:ewj at pigs.ag>>/* wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: E. Wayne Johnson <ewj at pigs.ag <mailto:ewj at pigs.ag>> Subject: Re:
>>> [Peace-discuss] When You Comin' Back, Red Ryder? To: "Jenifer
Cartwright"
>>> <jencart13 at yahoo.com <mailto:jencart13 at yahoo.com>> Cc: "Peace-discuss"
>>> <peace-discuss at anti-war.net <mailto:peace-discuss at anti-war.net>> Date:
>>> Sunday, August 23, 2009, 12:18 PM
>>> 
>>> Jenifer,
>>> 
>>> For there to be any real progress there has to first be the admission
>>> that there has not been any real progress in how wars can be prevented, 
>>> how they are supposed to be fought, what's permissable re treatment of
>>> prisoners, how governments are supposed to function... with consequences
>>> for breaches.
>>> 
>>> Mr. Bush continued Clinton's war, and Mr. Obama continues Mr. Bush's
war,
>>> and torturing and immoral detention, and dysfunction oligarchic
>>> government continues in its arrogant manner to trod down the people
under
>>> the iron boot of authoritarian control.
>>> 
>>> Whereas through GWBush the oligarchy scourged us with whips in their
>>> deceits, through Obama and their other minions the oligarchy seeks to
>>> scourge us with scorpions in the name of "hope".
>>> 
>>> I dont see the progress you speak of Jenifer.  It's time to stop 
>>> pretending. It aint there, and the movement has been lullabied to sleep
>>> on a pillow of lies.
>>> 
>>> It's time to quit distributing the sedatives.  The anti-war movement is
>>> co-opted and it's being co-opted from within.
>>> 
>>> Hope deferred makes the heart sick, but hope begins again when people
>>> wake up.
>>> 
>>> Wayne
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 8/23/2009 11:34 AM, Jenifer Cartwright wrote:
>>>> John, What you say is true if it's true that the best predictor of the 
>>>> future is the past... But saying that a thing will be true because it
>>>> has always been true also invites complacency... and it overlooks that
>>>> there HAS been progress in how wars can be prevented, how they are
>>>> supposed to be fought, what's permissable re treatment of prisoners,
>>>> how governments are supposed to function... with consequences for
>>>> breaches. No, not a perfect system, of course, and yes, there are
>>>> violations... but it's a start. The real danger -- hope? -- is that the
>>>> way wars CAN be fought will be so horrific that major wars will be
>>>> bro't to a halt, OR -- the main fear -- that humankind will blow itself
>>>> off the planet (yes, even before it destroys the planet, or what's left
>>>> of it at that point). Have a good day... and let's all do what we can
>>>> to keep things moving forward. --Jenifer
>>>> 
>>>> --- On *Sat, 8/22/09, John W. /<jbw292002 at gmail.com>/* wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> From: John W. <jbw292002 at gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] When
>>>> You Comin' Back, Red Ryder? To: "C. G. Estabrook"
>>>> <galliher at illinois.edu> Cc: "Peace-discuss"
>>>> <peace-discuss at anti-war.net> Date: Saturday, August 22, 2009, 2:16 AM
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 5:15 PM, C. G. Estabrook <galliher at illinois.edu
>>>> 
>>>> 
> <http://us.mc449.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=galliher@illinois.edu>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> "... the Counter-Culture hung up the Out of Business sign sometime in
>>>> the Nineties, finished off by identity politics and general 
>>>> self-satisfaction..."
>>>> 
>>>> --<http://www.counterpunch.org/>
>>>> 
>>>> Commenting weekly in those days on "the news of the week and its
>>>> coverage by the media" on News from Neptune as I was, I'd say that Alex
>>>> Cockburn has this about right.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I haven't read Cockburn's article; his essays are invariably too long
>>>> for my limited attention span.  But I submit that in the so-called
>>>> "counter-culture" essentially BECAME the culture.  In some ways our
>>>> generation, that of the 60s, was absorbed into the existing culture; in
>>>> certain ways it profoundly changed the culture; and in yet other ways
>>>> the culture recoiled in horror and moved in the opposite direction.
>>>> But isn't that simply the way of the world? Thesis ---> antithesis --->
>>>> synthesis , for good or ill?
>>>> 
>>>> What we need now, I guess, is a NEW counter-culture.  The closest thing
>>>> I've seen to that in this country is the development of the independent
>>>> media movement starting in the late 1990s.  Last I looked, the U-C
>>>> Independent Media Center was still very much alive and well.  But of
>>>> course the new counter-culture needs to affect more than just the
>>>> media, important as that is.
>>>> 
>>>> I further submit, though, that as long as human beings populate the
>>>> planet and compete for finite resources, there will ALWAYS be war.  I
>>>> dare to imagine that American culture could change to allow for
>>>> universal health care if the political and public will was there.   We
>>>> could inject a bit of "socialism" into our "free-market capitalism"
>>>> without demonstrable ill effects.  But human nature does not change, 
>>>> and war will be with us always.
>>>> 
>>>> J.W.
>>>> 
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