[Peace-discuss] When You Comin' Back, Red Ryder?
E. Wayne Johnson
ewj at pigs.ag
Mon Aug 24 17:27:28 CDT 2009
This is disappointing, Laurie. I was hoping you would take the
challenge and run with it.
Leading any sort of free-thinking people is sure enough like herding cats,
hence the tendency toward more authoritarianism, more dumbing down,
more bread and circuses, and more admonitions to "not think too much", since
a dumbed down, unthinking, amusement-oriented, submissive population is much
easier to control.
Ya cant drive cats. But you can draw them to what cats want.
On 8/24/2009 5:18 PM, LAURIE SOLOMON wrote:
> There are several reasons why that is not going to happen:
> First, I do not have any formal or informal connections with the University
> and its officialdom nor with the YMCA. Second, I do not think it is the
> sort of thing that a single person will be able to accomplish; and I have
> found that when it comes to mobilizing and organizing progressives and
> activists my positions and efforts are in the minority and what I seek to do
> is either opposed or redirected to something that I am not inclined to
> participate in. Actually, I have found that when it comes to mobilizing,
> organizing, and planning any sort of sustainable long range project or
> program with members of this progressive, activist, leftist community; it is
> like herding cats.
> Thirdly, I am having some health problems and will need to undergo a
> procedure or two; and the future condition is uncertain with respect to my
> future time ability to commit any time, energy, or resources. I do not like
> what I view as "activist gadflyism" in which activists flit from one issue
> or project to another never spending enough time at any single one to get
> anything done or be effective; and given my current situation, to make any
> commitments that I may not be able to keep or give my full attention to
> would be to become such a gadfly.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: C. G. Estabrook [mailto:galliher at illinois.edu]
> Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 4:55 PM
> To: LAURIE SOLOMON
> Cc: 'Morton K. Brussel'; 'Peace-discuss'; 'E. Wayne Johnson'
> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] When You Comin' Back, Red Ryder?
>
> Good. Set it up.
>
> LAURIE SOLOMON wrote:
>
>> I do not think that using a one-directional non-interactional TV program
>>
> is
>
>> any way to foster a discussion as contrasted to a lecture where the people
>>
> in
>
>> the TV studio preach at and talk to the audience with the audience having
>>
> no
>
>> way to carry on a timely conversation involving give and take. It
>>
> certainly
>
>> could furnish a supplement to such a seminar where ongoing discussion
>>
> between
>
>> presenters, moderators, and audience takes place; but I doubt if it is a
>>
> good
>
>> substitute.
>>
>> I also think that a one shot conference or TV program will be of any
>>
> lasting
>
>> impact or have any significant benefits; whereas a semester long seminar
>> meeting 1-3 times a week just might. I also think that the locations
>> selected where such seminars are to be held as well as the times of those
>> seminars will define the potential nature and scope of the audience that
>> participates.
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net
>> [mailto:peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net] On Behalf Of C. G.
>> Estabrook Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 12:17 PM To: Morton K. Brussel Cc:
>> Peace-discuss; E. Wayne Johnson Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] When You
>>
> Comin'
>
>> Back, Red Ryder?
>>
>> Let's begin by using the local media outlet we have, UPTV.
>>
>> Contributors to this thread should make an effort to show up Tuesday at
>>
> 1pm
>
>> in the Urbna City Council chambers to discuss it on "AWARE on the Air."
>> --CGE
>>
>>
>> Morton K. Brussel wrote:
>>
>>> The "Why?" of wars and and the militaristic mentality should be a ripe
>>> subject for inquiry at our great universities, but I've not noticed
>>>
> efforts
>
>>> to illuminate this vital topic for the populations or students here or
>>> elsewhere. It would be like a Department of Peace that Kucinich has been
>>> advocating. It seems to be too delicate a subject to broach in our
>>> institutions. If AWARE were resourceful enough it could conceive of
>>>
> putting
>
>>> together a conference on the subject.
>>>
>>> --mkb
>>>
>>> On Aug 24, 2009, at 11:29 AM, Ricky Baldwin wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Easy to repeat, perhaps ad nauseam. Harder to demonstrate.
>>>>
>>>> I'd argue there was progress through the 1960s and 70s, but as Karen
>>>> points out, these victories are rarely permanent. Eternal vigilance and
>>>> all that.
>>>>
>>>> Ricky
>>>>
>>>> "Speak your mind even if your voice shakes." - Maggie Kuhn
>>>>
>>>> --- On *Sun, 8/23/09, E. Wayne Johnson /<ewj at pigs.ag
>>>> <mailto:ewj at pigs.ag>>/* wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: E. Wayne Johnson<ewj at pigs.ag<mailto:ewj at pigs.ag>> Subject: Re:
>>>> [Peace-discuss] When You Comin' Back, Red Ryder? To: "Jenifer
>>>>
> Cartwright"
>
>>>> <jencart13 at yahoo.com<mailto:jencart13 at yahoo.com>> Cc: "Peace-discuss"
>>>> <peace-discuss at anti-war.net<mailto:peace-discuss at anti-war.net>> Date:
>>>> Sunday, August 23, 2009, 12:18 PM
>>>>
>>>> Jenifer,
>>>>
>>>> For there to be any real progress there has to first be the admission
>>>> that there has not been any real progress in how wars can be prevented,
>>>> how they are supposed to be fought, what's permissable re treatment of
>>>> prisoners, how governments are supposed to function... with consequences
>>>> for breaches.
>>>>
>>>> Mr. Bush continued Clinton's war, and Mr. Obama continues Mr. Bush's
>>>>
> war,
>
>>>> and torturing and immoral detention, and dysfunction oligarchic
>>>> government continues in its arrogant manner to trod down the people
>>>>
> under
>
>>>> the iron boot of authoritarian control.
>>>>
>>>> Whereas through GWBush the oligarchy scourged us with whips in their
>>>> deceits, through Obama and their other minions the oligarchy seeks to
>>>> scourge us with scorpions in the name of "hope".
>>>>
>>>> I dont see the progress you speak of Jenifer. It's time to stop
>>>> pretending. It aint there, and the movement has been lullabied to sleep
>>>> on a pillow of lies.
>>>>
>>>> It's time to quit distributing the sedatives. The anti-war movement is
>>>> co-opted and it's being co-opted from within.
>>>>
>>>> Hope deferred makes the heart sick, but hope begins again when people
>>>> wake up.
>>>>
>>>> Wayne
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 8/23/2009 11:34 AM, Jenifer Cartwright wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> John, What you say is true if it's true that the best predictor of the
>>>>> future is the past... But saying that a thing will be true because it
>>>>> has always been true also invites complacency... and it overlooks that
>>>>> there HAS been progress in how wars can be prevented, how they are
>>>>> supposed to be fought, what's permissable re treatment of prisoners,
>>>>> how governments are supposed to function... with consequences for
>>>>> breaches. No, not a perfect system, of course, and yes, there are
>>>>> violations... but it's a start. The real danger -- hope? -- is that the
>>>>> way wars CAN be fought will be so horrific that major wars will be
>>>>> bro't to a halt, OR -- the main fear -- that humankind will blow itself
>>>>> off the planet (yes, even before it destroys the planet, or what's left
>>>>> of it at that point). Have a good day... and let's all do what we can
>>>>> to keep things moving forward. --Jenifer
>>>>>
>>>>> --- On *Sat, 8/22/09, John W. /<jbw292002 at gmail.com>/* wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: John W.<jbw292002 at gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] When
>>>>> You Comin' Back, Red Ryder? To: "C. G. Estabrook"
>>>>> <galliher at illinois.edu> Cc: "Peace-discuss"
>>>>> <peace-discuss at anti-war.net> Date: Saturday, August 22, 2009, 2:16 AM
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 5:15 PM, C. G. Estabrook<galliher at illinois.edu
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>> <http://us.mc449.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=galliher@illinois.edu>>
>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> "... the Counter-Culture hung up the Out of Business sign sometime in
>>>>> the Nineties, finished off by identity politics and general
>>>>> self-satisfaction..."
>>>>>
>>>>> --<http://www.counterpunch.org/>
>>>>>
>>>>> Commenting weekly in those days on "the news of the week and its
>>>>> coverage by the media" on News from Neptune as I was, I'd say that Alex
>>>>> Cockburn has this about right.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I haven't read Cockburn's article; his essays are invariably too long
>>>>> for my limited attention span. But I submit that in the so-called
>>>>> "counter-culture" essentially BECAME the culture. In some ways our
>>>>> generation, that of the 60s, was absorbed into the existing culture; in
>>>>> certain ways it profoundly changed the culture; and in yet other ways
>>>>> the culture recoiled in horror and moved in the opposite direction.
>>>>> But isn't that simply the way of the world? Thesis ---> antithesis --->
>>>>> synthesis , for good or ill?
>>>>>
>>>>> What we need now, I guess, is a NEW counter-culture. The closest thing
>>>>> I've seen to that in this country is the development of the independent
>>>>> media movement starting in the late 1990s. Last I looked, the U-C
>>>>> Independent Media Center was still very much alive and well. But of
>>>>> course the new counter-culture needs to affect more than just the
>>>>> media, important as that is.
>>>>>
>>>>> I further submit, though, that as long as human beings populate the
>>>>> planet and compete for finite resources, there will ALWAYS be war. I
>>>>> dare to imagine that American culture could change to allow for
>>>>> universal health care if the political and public will was there. We
>>>>> could inject a bit of "socialism" into our "free-market capitalism"
>>>>> without demonstrable ill effects. But human nature does not change,
>>>>> and war will be with us always.
>>>>>
>>>>> J.W.
>>>>>
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>
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>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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