[Peace-discuss] Re: petition period has begun for next year's D and R primaries

[John W.]

On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 1:43 PM, C. G. Estabrook <galliher at illinois.edu>wrote:

Matt--
>
> Aren't you involved in a contradiction when you say (quite rightly) "that
> identity politics have been ruinous to the organized left" -- and then call
> my criticism of identity politics "a pseudo-intellectual mechanism"?  Which
> is it?
>
> As to "coming to Wayne's defense," I'm not sure he'd see it that way.
>  Wayne has shown himself quite able to provide for his own defence in what
> he undoubtedly sees as an attempt to establish justice, promote the general
> welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty for himself and his posterity.
>  (It is however true that -- as far as this list is concerned -- he hasn't
> done much to insure domestic tranquility: he seems to recall the prophecy of
> the late Abbie Hoffman, that sacred cows will make the best hamburger.)
>
> As far as being active is concerned, I've always thought that the cure for
> bad speech is more speech.  Do you think it's something else?



Depends on where the bad speech is coming from.  Sometimes the cure for bad
speech is to just shut the f*ck up and listen to people with more sense.




> I do think it's a mistake, instead of contesting and even condemning what
> someone says, to label it "hate speech" with the implication that it then
> has no more right to free speech.  "If you're really in favor of free
> speech, then you're in favor of freedom of speech for precisely the views
> you despise; otherwise, you're not in favor of free speech" [guess who].
>
> Oh, and thank you for your congratulations on my retirement from the
> University.  Among other things, not teaching gives me more time to answer
> emails...
>
> Regards, Carl
>
>
> Matt Reichel wrote:


>  I agree that class politics should be more prominent in the United States
>> and
>> that identity politics have been ruinous to the organized left.
>>
>> Nonetheless, this doesn't mean we should sit idly by while someone spews
>> contemptible hate speech. None of the descriptors I used of Rosanna (and
>> Wayne, by extension) were inappropriate, except for perhaps "wacko." And
>> last
>> I checked this is a listserv for activists, who seem to spend too much
>> time
>> staring at their computers and too little time being "active," to discuss
>> current events. One wouldn't expect to be held to academic writing
>> standards
>> on an email listserv.
>>
>> Rosanna Pulido was using her position of influence as the candidate of a
>> major party for national office to spread vile hate speech about gays,
>> Latinos, blacks and working class people. This is verbatim what Nazi
>> fascists
>> did in Germany. As such, I am being perfectly appropriate in calling her a
>> hate-monger and fascist.
>>
>> Lastly, I am ashamed to see Carl use a psuedo-intellectual mechanism, i.e.
>> his criticism of "identity politics," to come to Wayne's defense. The
>> issue
>> here is not one of "free speech," or what organizing techniques are most
>> industrious from a left perspective. The issue here is hate speech. By all
>> means, one has the "right" to spew it. However, as a scholar who is
>> familiar
>> with the philosophical foundations of the rights discourse should know,
>> "rights" come with "duties." In this case, the duty is to face the
>> consequences of perpetuating lies, the typical Conservative rejection of
>> science, and a call to bring hate upon a significant portion of the
>> population. I am happy to know that you and your crazed defense of this
>> society's most backward elements no longer teaches at the University.
>>
>> Best, Matt
>>
>
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