[Peace-discuss] RE: [Peace] How to locate AWARE table at Sweetcorn Festival

[C. G. Estabrook]

Many universities -- and many leading ones -- are private corporations. Can they
suppress free speech?  I'd say no, and that's where the Sixties began.

"Can't I do what I want with what I own?" is the capitalist plaint. The answer
is no.  That position is "propertarian," as -- I've been recently reminded -- it
is condemned in Ursula Le Guin's wonderful novel The Dispossessed.

Regards, CGE


Robert Dunn wrote:
> I oppose government entities such as Universities and City Councils making 
> speech codes. As far as private entities such as the Champaign County 
> Republican Central Committee and Illini Pundit, the person or persons who 
> built the organization have the right to dictate what goes on in their 
> meetings or discussions. For instance, though, i believe their decision to be
>  elitist and hypocritical, I do believe that the PRC and IDF were within
> their rights to ban me from their organization. I could not sue them on
> account of them denying me my Constitutional liberties! Looking back ten
> years ago from the incident, I laugh considering that the PRC is no longer in
> existence, the IDF had to sell its property possibly due to the Left moving
> its "hub" from the IDF to the IMC building. Private entities can make their
> own decisions as to what type of speech is allowed. I hope as a libertarian,
> Wayne can agree with me on that!
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Robert
> 
>> Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 14:24:13 -0500 From: galliher at illinois.edu To: 
>> prorobert8 at hotmail.com CC: ewj at pigs.ag; peace-discuss at anti-war.net Subject:
>>  Re: [Peace-discuss] RE: [Peace] How to locate AWARE table at
> Sweetcorn Festival
>> 
>> Robert--
>> 
>> I thought you agreed with me that the construction of the category of
> "hate
>> speech" was a (often non-innocent) way to infringe free speech rights.
>> 
>> Wayne is perfectly capable of answering for himself, but I must say
> that I've
>> never heard any racist (or antisemitic) opinions from him, and what I
> know of
>> his personal history would suggest that they're highly unlikely.
>> 
>> AWARE has never "kicked an individual out," altho' some have left of
> their own
>> accord.
>> 
>> And a man of your perspicacity can't seriously hold that "the war has
> nothing to
>> do with Champaign County."
>> 
>> Regards, CGE
>> 
>> 
>> Robert Dunn wrote:
>>> whether you disagree or not with a particular candidate is one
> thing, but
>>> being overtly rude and even yelling at the guy is another. You were
> banned
>>> twice from IP for your overtly anti-Semitic/racist comments. IP is
> very open
>>> to those of a variety of viewpoints. You cross the line when you
> threaten,
>>> use racist/anti-Semitic/or anti-gay language! You have been guilty
> of all of
>>> this. I do not know your relationship with AWARE, but i wanted
> AWARE to know
>>> about who you really are. I know that AWARE is non-violent and has
> had to
>>> kick an individual out due to his violent rhetoric, (Hippie Joe.)
> As far as
>>> the local GOP goes, the war has nothing to do with Champaign
> County. We are
>>> about electing local candidates, not taking positions on every
> controversy
>>> that comes down the road.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 11:15:25 -0500 From: ewj at pigs.ag To: 
>>> prorobert8 at hotmail.com CC: peace-discuss at anti-war.net Subject: Re:
> [Peace]
>>> How to locate AWARE table at Sweetcorn Festival
>>> 
>>> (moving to Peace-discuss)
>>> 
>>> I don't like to be misquoted and misrepresented. I prefer that
> those who
>>> disagree and disparage have their facts straight.
>>> 
>>> Those who choose a path of violence generally come to a violent end.
>>> 
>>> My reference is to the notion that we need new tactics to awaken
> the masses,
>>> the equivalent to "bombs". Some in the liberty movement have had
> promoted
>>> "money bombs" raising hundreds of thousands even millions for
> candidates like
>>> Ron Paul and Peter Schiff, which is having some effect.
>>> 
>>> ****
>>> 
>>> In regard to the local GOP, I am still on their mailing list. I had
> been an
>>> appointed precinct committeeman in Cunningham 12, from which position I 
>>> resigned several months ago, prior to running for city council in
> Urbana as
>>> an Independent. Nobody kicked me out, I just walked away. Indeed I was 
>>> banned from IlliniPundit, not just once, but twice in fact. :-)
> That blog
>>> is not exactly what you might call a free-speech zone, nor is it a
> venue for
>>> exchange of "traditional conservative" ideas such as opposition to
> war. I
>>> have found other outlets that are somewhat more receptive.
>>> 
>>> It seems that the GOP has forgotten the purpose of elections in
> general and
>>> chooses to act as a dominant top-down politburo "choosing primary
> winners so
>>> that the people don't have to".
>>> 
>>> Indeed ex-party chief Andrew McKenna has been quoted as stating
> that the
>>> Illinois GOP Central Committee should determine who the GOP
> candidates are,
>>> and not have a primary election at all. Certainly the fellow you
> refer to as
>>> "our 103rd State Rep candidate" appears to be anointed by the local
> top-down
>>> organization, and there is no reason for the people themselves to be 
>>> consulted. I took issue with him over the fact that he told me that
> he had
>>> been solicited by the local top-downers and that the GOP didn't
> want anyone
>>> else to run because they didn't want to expend precious resources on a 
>>> contested primary.
>>> 
>>> My point is that this top-down selection of candidates is a
> perversion of the
>>> democratic process and is not conducive to "good government".
> Others may
>>> disagree.
>>> 
>>> I think it is particularly unfortunate that the GOP has come to
> view primary
>>> elections as an impediment to their political ends. I am no great
> fan of
>>> Abraham Lincoln but I do agree that government should be "of the
> people, by
>>> the people, for the people" whether there is much evidence that Lincoln 
>>> actually subscribed to that concept or not.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 8/30/2009 6:56 PM, Robert Dunn wrote:
>>> 
>>> my favorite moment of AWAREs table was when Wayne Johnson rather loudly 
>>> talked about his desire to make bombs in his home! Sorry Wayne, the
> local GOP
>>> did not find that too funny, plus your being extremely rude to our
> 103rd
>>> State Rep candidate. AWARE, please be aware, ( no pun intented that
> Wayne
>>> Johnson is not to be trusted. He has been banned from IlliniPundit,
> the local
>>> GOP banned him! Maybe for AWAREs reputation, you guys should follow
> suite!
>>> 
>>> Robert Dunn
>>