[Discuss] [Peace-discuss] more than a nuisance

Wed Feb 11 10:11:44 CST 2009

Yes Indeed !

But white people will also be jailed and / or killed if they become a 
serious enough threat to the system.

Also, in response to Wayne's post, once someone is released from jail ( for 
whatever they were convicted of ( rightly or wrongly ) violent or 
non-violent ( non violent being the vast majority ) where are they suppose 
to live if there are such ordinances in place ?

How are they suppose to re enter society and be " good " citizens if they 
cannot find a place to live ?

What will happen is that they will more than likely be forced to turn back 
to illegal activity ( possibly violence ) in order to survive.

David Johnson

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <cu at veyafoundation.org>
To: "E. Wayne Johnson" <ewj at pigs.ag>
Cc: "Community Courtwatch" <discuss at communitycourtwatch.org>; "peace 
discuss" <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 9:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Discuss] [Peace-discuss] more than a nuisance

> Okay since we opened this door let's talk about dangerous criminals in 
> Champaign County. Until you commit to punishing and prosecuting the 
> private sector, city, state and federal government for the 100 years  that 
> they have robbed and stolen trillions of dollars from everyday  people 
> then how do you support an ordinance that will be used to  discriminate 
> against the minority and the poor. If law enforcement was  aggressively 
> targeting those dangerous criminals like they pursue the  poor and 
> minority then your argument would be valid. I see and hear  only a few. As 
> a few of my white friends and colleagues told me if you  Patrick go out 
> and fight injustice they will lock you up and kill you.  But if I a white 
> person fight for those same reasons nothing would  happen to me.
>
> PDT
>
> Quoting "E. Wayne Johnson" <ewj at pigs.ag>:
>
>> Excuse me, but your posting did focus on upkeep.
>>
>> The City of Urbana has a law forbidding landlords from denying housing
>> to persons because of a criminal record.
>>
>> Do you think this law should be repealed?  I am intending this to be a
>> serious question.
>>
>> Certainly not all dangerous criminals have criminal records, vis a vis,
>> the past and current President, many members of Congress,...
>> And not all persons with criminal records are really "dangerous
>> criminals", but there may be some correlation.
>>
>>
>> Ricky Baldwin wrote:
>>> And basic maintenance is not my point, Wayne, but the hazards and 
>>> sometimes terror of living in a building or in a neighborhood where 
>>> landlords keep renting to dangerous criminals, and so on.
>>> Ricky
>>>
>>> "Speak your mind even if your voice shakes." - Maggie Kuhn
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> *From:* E. Wayne Johnson <ewj at pigs.ag>
>>> *To:* Ricky Baldwin <baldwinricky at yahoo.com>
>>> *Cc:* peace discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>; Community 
>>> Courtwatch <discuss at communitycourtwatch.org>
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 11, 2009 12:13:53 AM
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Peace-discuss] more than a nuisance
>>>
>>> Your previous experience and hard work is noted and appreciated by 
>>> all, but Basic maintenance is not at all what the proposed urbana 
>>> criminal nuisance ordinance is about.
>>>
>>> The most recent draft is available at the city's website. 
>>> http://www.city.urbana.il.us/Urbana/City_Council/Agendas/01-12-2009/ordinance_2008-11-135.pdf
>>> Additional info here:
>>> http://www.city.urbana.il.us/Urbana/City_Council/Agendas/02-09-2009/ordinance_2008-11-135.pdf
>>>
>>> Ricky Baldwin wrote:
>>>> My opinion may not be popular on either of these lists, but I   think I 
>>>> ought to explain where I'm coming from.
>>>>
>>>> In the nineties I worked for ACORN - an association I was never 
>>>> prouder of than in this last election.  As a lone NYC Council   member 
>>>> once said in another context - about not so different   attacks on poor 
>>>> people organizing for their rights to vote, to   improve their 
>>>> communities, to live in decent housing and safe   neighborhoods, 
>>>> attacks by people who oppose all those things - "It  is a badge of 
>>>> honor!"
>>>>
>>>> When I was at ACORN I spent my days and evenings six days a week 
>>>> walking around in the poorest, most dangerous (a.k.a. "worst") 
>>>> neighborhoods in the cities where I worked, talking to people who 
>>>> lived in toxic environments.  There were many rats, and in Buffalo 
>>>> skunks, garbage in the streets not swept by the city, abandoned 
>>>> buildings, vacant lots.  When it rained water cascaded down the   walls 
>>>> of the living rooms and kitchens where we sat and talked and  they 
>>>> offered me orange juice and tried to figure out why I wasn't  married 
>>>> and we planned the next meeting and how to get the press   interested 
>>>> and which local preachers might help and which might   get in the way, 
>>>> which cops were honest and which were dangerous   criminals.  Front 
>>>> doors of apartment buildings didn't lock or had   been broken for 
>>>> months.  Some people were afraid to go out into   the hallways in their 
>>>> own building because of the violence and   violent people going in and 
>>>> out, or living next door, down the   hall, just up stairs.
>>>>
>>>> These were hazards, nightmares, not mere "nuisances".
>>>> Landlord after landlord refused to fix anything, get rid of any 
>>>> dangerous tenants haunting the buildings, or take any   responsibility 
>>>> at all.  People in these communities were trapped.   They lived there 
>>>> because they had few options, and there was very  little recourse.  We 
>>>> organized together and fought the landlords,  pressured city government 
>>>> to hold them accountable, and demanded   that the landlords and the 
>>>> local government take some   responsibility for the neglect and 
>>>> toxicity of those   neighborhoods.  It was always an uphill climb, 
>>>> because money and   influence and property rights were always on the 
>>>> other side. We   won some, one piece at a time, but in truth we lost 
>>>> more often.  I  think a lot of us know that song.  Even the victories 
>>>> were often   mixed bags, but we improved real lives.
>>>>
>>>> I do have concerns about the proposed "Nuisance Ordinance" - some 
>>>> along the lines I think expressed by Charlie Smyth - and I'd like   to 
>>>> see a more community-based, even complaint-driven system,   rather than 
>>>> reliance on the police - but overall I support this   effort.  I hope 
>>>> I've explained why. I continue to support efforts   to expose and 
>>>> address police racial profiling and other abuses of   power.  I still 
>>>> hope we as a community can strengthen the police   review board some 
>>>> day soon.  But I do not see this ordinance as   repressive on its face, 
>>>> but potentially very progressive.
>>>>
>>>> In Solidarity,
>>>> Ricky
>>>>
>>>> "Speak your mind even if your voice shakes." - Maggie Kuhn
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Peace-discuss mailing list
>>>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>>>> http://lists.chambana.net/cgi-bin/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>>>
>>>
>
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