[Peace-discuss] more than a nuisance

Wed Feb 11 12:45:44 CST 2009

I really don't wish to enter this debate discussion, but I believe  
that there's considerable fear mongering by those opposed to  
consideration of (any) nuisance ordinances which might hold landlords  
responsible.

Ricky, I'm sympathetic to your views.

Mort

On Feb 11, 2009, at 11:30 AM, Ricky Baldwin wrote:

> My posting definitely did not focus on "upkeep", but on neglect.   
> The point is: "Some people were afraid to go out into the hallways  
> in their own building because of the violence and violent people  
> going in and out, or living next door, down the hall, just up  
> stairs."  By "toxicity" I mean all these threats, which you and I do  
> not face when we step outside our homes.
>
> Of course this law should not be repealed, and it is preposterous  
> and insulting to people with criminal records that you should ask in  
> this context.  We are not talking about people with a past here, but  
> with people who continue to be a threat to those around them.  Very  
> different.
>
> I'm not sure why you bring up rich politicians who do not live in  
> our community, but if you have information that GW Bush or Cheney or  
> Rumsfeld or someone is moving in, and you want to apply this  
> ordinance to them, more power to you.  (And I'm not sure how Obama  
> is much of a "dangerous criminal" yet, but that seems even more  
> beside the point here.)
>
> Ricky
>
> "Speak your mind even if your voice shakes." - Maggie Kuhn
>
>
> From: E. Wayne Johnson <ewj at pigs.ag>
> To: Ricky Baldwin <baldwinricky at yahoo.com>
> Cc: peace discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>; Community  
> Courtwatch <discuss at communitycourtwatch.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 9:49:11 AM
> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] more than a nuisance
>
> Excuse me, but your posting did focus on upkeep.
>
> The City of Urbana has a law forbidding landlords from denying  
> housing to persons because of a criminal record.
>
> Do you think this law should be repealed?  I am intending this to be  
> a serious question.
>
> Certainly not all dangerous criminals have criminal records, vis a  
> vis, the past and current President, many members of Congress,...
> And not all persons with criminal records are really "dangerous  
> criminals", but there may be some correlation.
>
>
> Ricky Baldwin wrote:
>>
>> And basic maintenance is not my point, Wayne, but the hazards and  
>> sometimes terror of living in a building or in a neighborhood where  
>> landlords keep renting to dangerous criminals, and so on.
>>
>> Ricky
>>
>> "Speak your mind even if your voice shakes." - Maggie Kuhn
>>
>>
>> From: E. Wayne Johnson <ewj at pigs.ag>
>> To: Ricky Baldwin <baldwinricky at yahoo.com>
>> Cc: peace discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>; Community  
>> Courtwatch <discuss at communitycourtwatch.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 12:13:53 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] more than a nuisance
>>
>> Your previous experience and hard work is noted and appreciated by  
>> all, but Basic maintenance is not at all what the proposed urbana  
>> criminal nuisance ordinance is about.
>>
>> The most recent draft is available at the city's website.
>> http://www.city.urbana.il.us/Urbana/City_Council/Agendas/01-12-2009/ordinance_2008-11-135.pdf
>> Additional info here:
>> http://www.city.urbana.il.us/Urbana/City_Council/Agendas/02-09-2009/ordinance_2008-11-135.pdf
>>
>> Ricky Baldwin wrote:
>>>
>>> My opinion may not be popular on either of these lists, but I  
>>> think I ought to explain where I'm coming from.
>>>
>>> In the nineties I worked for ACORN - an association I was never  
>>> prouder of than in this last election.  As a lone NYC Council  
>>> member once said in another context - about not so different  
>>> attacks on poor people organizing for their rights to vote, to  
>>> improve their communities, to live in decent housing and safe  
>>> neighborhoods, attacks by people who oppose all those things - "It  
>>> is a badge of honor!"
>>>
>>> When I was at ACORN I spent my days and evenings six days a week  
>>> walking around in the poorest, most dangerous (a.k.a. "worst")  
>>> neighborhoods in the cities where I worked, talking to people who  
>>> lived in toxic environments.  There were many rats, and in Buffalo  
>>> skunks, garbage in the streets not swept by the city, abandoned  
>>> buildings, vacant lots.  When it rained water cascaded down the  
>>> walls of the living rooms and kitchens where we sat and talked and  
>>> they offered me orange juice and tried to figure out why I wasn't  
>>> married and we planned the next meeting and how to get the press  
>>> interested and which local preachers might help and which might  
>>> get in the way, which cops were honest and which were dangerous  
>>> criminals.  Front doors of apartment buildings didn't lock or had  
>>> been broken for months.  Some people were afraid to go out into  
>>> the hallways in their own building because of the violence and  
>>> violent people going in and out, or living next door, down the  
>>> hall, just up stairs.
>>>
>>> These were hazards, nightmares, not mere "nuisances".
>>>
>>> Landlord after landlord refused to fix anything, get rid of any  
>>> dangerous tenants haunting the buildings, or take any  
>>> responsibility at all.  People in these communities were trapped.   
>>> They lived there because they had few options, and there was very  
>>> little recourse.  We organized together and fought the landlords,  
>>> pressured city government to hold them accountable, and demanded  
>>> that the landlords and the local government take some  
>>> responsibility for the neglect and toxicity of those  
>>> neighborhoods.  It was always an uphill climb, because money and  
>>> influence and property rights were always on the other side.
>>>
>>> We won some, one piece at a time, but in truth we lost more  
>>> often.  I think a lot of us know that song.  Even the victories  
>>> were often mixed bags, but we improved real lives.
>>>
>>> I do have concerns about the proposed "Nuisance Ordinance" - some  
>>> along the lines I think expressed by Charlie Smyth - and I'd like  
>>> to see a more community-based, even complaint-driven system,  
>>> rather than reliance on the police - but overall I support this  
>>> effort.  I hope I've explained why.
>>>
>>> I continue to support efforts to expose and address police racial  
>>> profiling and other abuses of power.  I still hope we as a  
>>> community can strengthen the police review board some day soon.   
>>> But I do not see this ordinance as repressive on its face, but  
>>> potentially very progressive.
>>>
>>> In Solidarity,
>>> Ricky
>>>
>>> "Speak your mind even if your voice shakes." - Maggie Kuhn
>>>
>>>
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>>> http://lists.chambana.net/cgi-bin/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>>
>>
>
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