FW: [Peace-discuss] Food for thought?

Sun Jan 11 16:24:08 CST 2009

I am not all that sure that the short answer is really an answer; because to
train the unskilled to do the "Green jobs," we would have to train a
sufficient number of people to  train and teach unskilled persons those
jobs.  I doubt if we currently have enough qualified persons to do the
training in any sufficient quantity.  Thus the time to train the trainers
plus the time for the trainers to train the unskilled would probably not
serve as any corrective in the short run.  In the long run, it may result in
a greener society with greener infrastructure and the transforming of
unskilled persons into skilled persons to do both the training and the jobs;
but that not only would be of any good to those who have not work or skills
now.  Moreover, in addition to needing to train  trainers and skilled job
holder, I would assume that as we are catching up with Western Europe and
Japan in this area things will be evolving which means that all the trained
trainers and job holders will need to undergo further training to keep up to
date which may result in a situation similar to that being experienced in
nursing these days.

Of course the long answer is  that it is a systemic problem that may require
dramatic radical system changes and not just reforms of new expanded
programs of the same type as we have had in the past, which typically were
not all that effective, when things were not as technically complex and
complicated and just about everyone could learn to do laborer jobs with
little extensive time consuming training through make work programs which
build some of the original non-technical infrastructure.  You did not need
to know how to operate a computer or read a computer printout to carry
bricks or pour concrete, run a truck or tractor, paint a building or bridge,
etc.  I think you get my point.  In short, the problem is the capitalist
system and much more - e.g., the overly technological and technologically
dependent society, the insistence on formal credentials over experience of
abilities, and the over bureaucratization of job sites and projects.

>The problem is that the construction Unions have allowed the contractors
almost total control of hiring / firing.

I claim no expertise or even knowledge about the politics of the
construction industry or its union and contractor players.  That is your
sphere of expertise. J but I thing that  in addition to what you have said
about unions allowing contractors almost total control over hiring/firing,
questions about the meanings of local communities may have a bearing with
respect to who gets hired and fired with respect to what geographic
locations they are drawn from as well as what the target demographics need
to be in order to be in accord with the Federal and State standards.  I am
sure that if all hirings needed to be drawn from the membership of local
union hall where the job site is located  (i.e., no persons from outside the
area unless there is no one in the geographic community that can do the job
even if they might be union members of a different regions union hall) and
the union membership needed to match the demographics of the local
geographic community that it was located in and represented there might be
some changes in the character of the work force.

I would also suspect that the construction industry is almost totally white
male dominated not only because of historic reasons but because there are
too many non-union persons who are ready and willing to take construction
jobs to pick up some cash, who are tradespeople do not support or trust
unions, and who are seasonal workers who only do construction during the
construction season when they are out of school or during the winter when
they are  not farming in order to supplement their incomes.

At any rate, I do not see any of the make work stimulus plans as really
changing anything except that they might temporarily buy off  some of the
established middle class construction industry workers in and out of the
union.

From: unionyes [mailto:unionyes at ameritech.net] 
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 1:52 PM
To: LAURIE SOLOMON
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Food for thought?

The short answer is Green Collar Jobs.

Besides an increase in solar, wind, etc. use, encouraged by some type of
government help ( R and D, tax credits, direct investment, training
programs, etc. ), the re-tooling of the U.S. auto industry to make electric
cars, high speed rail and inter-urban light rail ( which would BEGIN to
creep us towards Western Europe and Japan, who are 40 years ahead of us ).

The long answer is a more systemic problem which ties in with why the above
short answer hasn't happened and addressing your concern Laurie, about the
corporate system being sustained. The system that created the problems we
currently have.

That problem is the Capitalist system.

The other point that is mentioned about the construction industry being
dominated by white males IS absolutely true.

The problem is that the construction Unions have allowed the contractors
almost total control of hiring / firing.

The Unions take in apprentices every year, with a ratio of about 20 %
minorities and women. The problem is that they don't get enough work via the
contractors and 75 % drop out after one to three years.

In fact, in Champaign-Urbana where 95 % of the construction work is located,
you will find that 90 % of the Workers on these jobs do NOT live in
Champaign-Urbana.

State and Federal construction projects ( U of I )  are required to have a
workforce on these projects that reflect the community in terms of race.

If you use the population diversity of the County as a benchmark, then 9 %
of the Tradespeople should be African American, 2% Hispanic ( or more ), and
about 1% Asian ( excluding visiting academics at the U of I ).

What is typical on the job-sites overall is 2% African American at best. No
Hispanics unless they are specialty crews from Chicago ( terrazo floors,
etc. ), and I have only seen ONE Asian Tradesperson in my 30 years in the
Trades.

And the above are the COUNTY figures. You can guess how this would change if
you used City of Champaign and Urbana figures for benchmarks.

David J.

----- Original Message ----- 

From: LAURIE SOLOMON <mailto:LAURIE at ADVANCENET.NET>  

To: sf-core at yahoogroups.com ; peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net 

Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 12:45 PM

Subject: [Peace-discuss] Food for thought?

Food for thought?  The question here, I guess is:  if this is actually the
case and if training people to have the right and most current needed skills
will take time, what kinds of stimulus can there be which does not reward
those who already have the skills and jobs while actually accomplishing the
production of something productive and useful in terms of tangible
infrastructure improvements and repairs as opposed to merely keeping the
economy, financial centers, and corporations up and running as usual with
little actual tangible benefits to the standard of living and needs of the
ordinary population.?

FOCUS | The Stimulus

http://www.truthout.org/011109Y

Robert Reich, Robert Reich's Blog: "The stimulus plan will create jobs
repairing and upgrading the nation's roads, bridges, ports, levees, water
and sewage system, public-transit systems, electricity grid, and schools...
But if there aren't enough skilled professionals to do the jobs involving
new technologies, the stimulus will just increase the wages of the
professionals who already have the right skills rather than generate many
new jobs in these fields. And if construction jobs go mainly to white males
who already dominate the construction trades, many people who need jobs the
most - women, minorities, and the poor and long-term unemployed - will be
shut out."

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