[Peace-discuss] Questions for Wayne
E. Wayne Johnson
ewj at pigs.ag
Sun Jan 25 13:54:38 CST 2009
I didnt mean *your personal concerns* but concerns of each person who
falls into despair...
Unfortunately for me I wrote in such a way that you misunderstood me.
Sorry for that.,
/Most people I have encountered in the " pro-life " movement ( with Carl
being one of the few exceptions ) are concerned about a fetus from
conception to birth, but could care less about what happens to a child
from birth to adulthood.
/
I hear this all the time, and it's really Not True.
Step one is to un-legalize the killing.
Let's work on the roots of the other problems.
unionyes wrote:
> " The questions you bring up are related to personal concerns that lead
> people to despair and need to be addressed at their roots in
> other contexts. However, despair is no excuse for killing the innocent."
>
> They are NOT personal concerns Wayne, they are concerns for the entire
> society we live in.
> Making abortions rare or non existent would be ONE beneficial aspect
> of the issues I mentioned. A lower crime rate would be another
> beneficial aspect, not to mention overall lessening of despair in
> society.
>
> Most people I have encountered in the " pro-life " movement ( with
> Carl being one of the few exceptions ) are concerned about a fetus
> from conception to birth, but could care less about what happens to a
> child from birth to adulthood.
>
>
> It is impossible to have few or no abortions in a society if you do
> not have the necessary ; medical, educational, and financial support
> structures that eliminate or at least greatly reduce situations of
> despair.
>
> History proves that laws alone do not work. Women still had abortions,
> but the difference was that in many or most cases both the fetus AND
> the mother died.
>
> David Johnson
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "E. Wayne Johnson" <ewj at pigs.ag>
> To: "unionyes" <unionyes at ameritech.net>; "Peace-discuss"
> <peace-discuss at anti-war.net>
> Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 3:36 AM
> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Questions for Wayne
>
>
>> The first thing that is needed is an overturning of Roe v. Wade
>> nationally so that local communities, cities, counties and states can
>> ban abortions if they want to.
>>
>> Some of the pro-life activists have been going about the whole thing
>> wrong because they have wanted to push for a national right to life
>> amendment. It's already in the Declaration as a natural right. The
>> only matter is what the dissenting opinion in Roe v. Wade said, which
>> is if the unborn has rights as an individual. That is the first step
>> in making abortion less likely. There are actually millions of
>> people in the US who want the blood of those innocents off of their
>> hands.
>>
>> The questions you bring up are related to personal concerns that lead
>> people to despair and need to be addressed at their roots in
>> other contexts. However, despair is no excuse for killing the innocent.
>>
>> unionyes wrote:
>>> O.K. Wayne,
>>>
>>> Then are you willing to support the necessary support structures
>>> that will make abortion less likely ?
>>>
>>> Like ; universal single payer national healthcare for EVERYONE
>>> living in the U.S. ( expansion of the current medicare program ),
>>> 100 % payed ; pre-school, after school daycare, and university
>>> education ,
>>> a $ 15.00 per hour nation-wide minimum wage in conjunction with a
>>> minimum income assistance, guaranting that NO One is without food,
>>> shelter, clothing, medicine, education ?
>>>
>>> David Johnson
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "E. Wayne Johnson" <ewj at pigs.ag>
>>> To: "Ron Szoke" <r-szoke at illinois.edu>
>>> Cc: "peace discuss" <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>; "C. G.
>>> Estabrook" <galliher at uiuc.edu>
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2009 10:19 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Questions for Wayne
>>>
>>>
>>>> Q1: "The coercive power of the State" is exercised here to uphold
>>>> the rule of law
>>>> in protecting the life of the unborn.
>>>>
>>>> - I would suggest punishment for the "physician" equal to that
>>>> punishment
>>>> rendered when any medical person deliberately and knowingly and
>>>> willfully
>>>> by direct application of the medical arts causes the death of a
>>>> patient under his charge.
>>>> It should be sufficient to end the practice of abortion.
>>>>
>>>> Libertarian writer Murray Rothbard did not believe that the power
>>>> of the state extended to the
>>>> woman's body in the case of abortion, but I disagree with his
>>>> interpretation of the situation.
>>>> There is another individual with exactly equal natural rights when
>>>> there is a pregnancy.
>>>> It then becomes clear that this is an individual whose right to
>>>> life must be protected,
>>>> and securing that right to life for the innocent is a valid and
>>>> essential purpose of government.
>>>>
>>>> It is wrong to forcibly take away the life of the unborn child,
>>>> whether it be by trauma, surgery,
>>>> poisoning, or by modifying the maternal environment through drugs,
>>>> surgery, acupuncture, or
>>>> other interventions.
>>>>
>>>> I suggest only mercy for the mother who is another victim in the
>>>> crime.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ron Szoke wrote:
>>>>> None of this seems appropriate for this list. Anyway . . .
>>>>>
>>>>> Some questions for Wayne :
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. How far are you willing to go in using the coercive power of
>>>>> the State in criminalizing & punishing the actions of women &
>>>>> physicians in obtaining & providing abortions? -- Public
>>>>> service, shaming & humiliation? Small fines? Large fines?
>>>>> Jailing for a misdemeanor? Incarceration for a felony? Death
>>>>> penalty?
>>>>>
>>>>> True or false?
>>>>>
>>>>> 2.a. One good parent, whether gay or straight, is better for
>>>>> children than two bad parents, whether gay or straight.
>>>>> 2.b. Two good parents, whether gay or straight, are better for
>>>>> children than one good parent, whether gay or straight.
>>>>>
>>>>> -- Ron
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Peace-discuss mailing list
>>>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>>>> http://lists.chambana.net/cgi-bin/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>>
>
>
>
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