Fw: [Peace-discuss] Questions for Wayne

Sun Jan 25 10:57:37 CST 2009

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "unionyes" <unionyes at ameritech.net>
To: "E. Wayne Johnson" <ewj at pigs.ag>
Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 9:03 AM
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Questions for Wayne


>" The questions you bring up are related to personal concerns that lead
> people to despair and need to be addressed at their roots in
> other contexts.  However, despair is no excuse for killing the innocent."
>
> They are NOT personal concerns Wayne, they are concerns for the entire 
> society we live in.
> Making abortions rare or non existent would be ONE beneficial aspect of 
> the issues I mentioned. A lower crime rate would be another beneficial 
> aspect, not to mention overall lessening of despair in society.
>
> Most people I have encountered in the " pro-life " movement ( with Carl 
> being one of the few exceptions ) are concerned about a fetus from 
> conception to birth, but could care less about what happens to a child 
> from birth to adulthood.
>
> It is impossible to have few or no abortions in a society if you do not 
> have the necessary ; medical, educational, and financial support 
> structures that eliminate or at least greatly reduce situations of 
> despair.
>
> History proves that laws alone do not work. Women still had abortions, but 
> the difference was that in many or most cases both the fetus AND the 
> mother died.
>
> David Johnson
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "E. Wayne Johnson" <ewj at pigs.ag>
> To: "unionyes" <unionyes at ameritech.net>; "Peace-discuss" 
> <peace-discuss at anti-war.net>
> Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 3:36 AM
> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Questions for Wayne
>
>
>> The first thing that is needed is an overturning of Roe v. Wade 
>> nationally so that local communities, cities, counties and states can ban 
>> abortions if they want to.
>>
>> Some of the pro-life activists have been going about the whole thing 
>> wrong because they have wanted to push for a national right to life 
>> amendment. It's already in the Declaration as a natural right.  The only 
>> matter is what the dissenting opinion in Roe v. Wade said, which is if 
>> the unborn has rights as an individual.  That is the first step in making 
>> abortion less likely.  There are actually millions of people in the US 
>> who want the blood of those innocents off of their hands.
>>
>> The questions you bring up are related to personal concerns that lead 
>> people to despair and need to be addressed at their roots in
>> other contexts.  However, despair is no excuse for killing the innocent.
>>
>> unionyes wrote:
>>> O.K. Wayne,
>>>
>>> Then are you willing to support the necessary support structures that 
>>> will make abortion less likely ?
>>>
>>> Like ; universal single payer national healthcare for EVERYONE living in 
>>> the U.S. ( expansion of the current medicare program ),
>>> 100 % payed ; pre-school, after school daycare, and university education 
>>> ,
>>> a $ 15.00 per hour nation-wide minimum wage in conjunction with a 
>>> minimum income assistance, guaranting that NO One is without food, 
>>> shelter, clothing, medicine, education ?
>>>
>>> David Johnson
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "E. Wayne Johnson" <ewj at pigs.ag>
>>> To: "Ron Szoke" <r-szoke at illinois.edu>
>>> Cc: "peace discuss" <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>; "C. G. 
>>> Estabrook" <galliher at uiuc.edu>
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2009 10:19 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Questions for Wayne
>>>
>>>
>>>> Q1:  "The coercive power of the State" is exercised here to uphold the 
>>>> rule of law
>>>> in protecting the life of the unborn.
>>>>
>>>> - I would suggest punishment for the "physician" equal to that 
>>>> punishment
>>>> rendered when any medical person deliberately and knowingly and 
>>>> willfully
>>>> by direct application of the medical arts causes the death of a patient 
>>>> under his charge.
>>>> It should be sufficient to end the practice of abortion.
>>>>
>>>> Libertarian writer Murray Rothbard did not believe that the power of 
>>>> the state extended to the
>>>> woman's body in the case of abortion, but I disagree with his 
>>>> interpretation of the situation.
>>>> There is another individual with exactly equal natural rights when 
>>>> there is a pregnancy.
>>>> It then becomes clear that this is an individual whose right to life 
>>>> must be protected,
>>>> and securing that right to life for the innocent is a valid and 
>>>> essential purpose of government.
>>>>
>>>> It is wrong to forcibly take away the life of the unborn child, whether 
>>>> it be by trauma, surgery,
>>>> poisoning, or by modifying the maternal environment through drugs, 
>>>> surgery, acupuncture, or
>>>> other interventions.
>>>>
>>>> I suggest only mercy for the mother who is another victim in the crime.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ron Szoke wrote:
>>>>> None of this seems appropriate for this list.  Anyway . . .
>>>>>
>>>>> Some questions for Wayne :
>>>>>
>>>>> 1.  How far are you willing to go in using the coercive power of the 
>>>>> State in criminalizing & punishing the actions of women & physicians 
>>>>> in obtaining & providing abortions?  --  Public service, shaming & 
>>>>> humiliation?   Small fines?  Large fines?  Jailing for a misdemeanor? 
>>>>> Incarceration for a felony?  Death penalty?
>>>>>
>>>>> True or false?
>>>>>
>>>>> 2.a.  One good parent, whether gay or straight, is better for children 
>>>>> than two bad parents, whether gay or straight.
>>>>> 2.b.  Two good parents, whether gay or straight, are better for 
>>>>> children than one good parent, whether gay or straight.
>>>>>
>>>>> -- Ron
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>>>> http://lists.chambana.net/cgi-bin/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
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