[Peace-discuss] Anti-racism

[unionyes]

This is NOT an insult.

This is a FACT !

We have been over this again, and again, and again, and you still don't get 
it !

So I will spell it out AGAIN !

It is about CLASS !

IT is in particular about the RANK and FILE , NOT the unelected " union " 
bureaucracy !

You think that being pro-Union is about giving unquestioning support to 
pieces of shit like Andy Stern of SEIU and Doug McCarron of the Carpenter's 
( Labor Ready INC. ) " union ", and Jimmy Hoffa Jr. of the Teamsters, and 
Gettilfinger of the UAW, who sell out their members to corporate interests 
on a DAILY BASIS !

To you it's all theoretical !

You have not lived it ! The betrayl, the retaliation, the daily sinking of 
the U.S. Labor movement by oppurtunistic collaboraters ! Which also 
simaltaneously sinks the living standards of ALL other workers.

Do you really believe that power hungry corporate collaborating ass holes 
like Stern, McCarron., Hoffa, Wilhelm, and Raynor are going to fight and 
lead this country to what it should be ?

They won't even represent their own members, what in the hell makes you 
think that these " Vichy " corporate collaboraters are EVER going to fight 
for the interests of working people in this country, not to mention ever try 
to organize INTERNATIONALY to fight international global capitalism ?

The piece Carl posted is dead on the money in terms of being accurate.

Liberals do NOT want to discuss the REAL power and economic divide in this 
country, that is, they are not willing to challenge capitalism or class 
issues in general.
Instead, they think that if there are a few new black or brown faces in the 
ruling class, that this is " progress ".
Liberals basicly want to keep the plantation system, just make the overseers 
whip less painful.

David Johnson


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robert Naiman" <naiman.uiuc at gmail.com>
To: "unionyes" <unionyes at ameritech.net>
Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 6:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Anti-racism


As insults go, I find this one a bit lacking in creativity.

On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 6:34 PM, unionyes <unionyes at ameritech.net> wrote:
> As usual Bob, you just don't get it !
>
> David J.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Naiman" <naiman.uiuc at gmail.com>
> To: "C. G. Estabrook" <galliher at illinois.edu>
> Cc: "Peace-discuss List" <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
> Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 9:29 AM
> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Anti-racism
>
>
> This frame seems to me needlessly and counterproductively sectarian.
>
> Is it the case that "racism and sexism" are still important problems
> in our society, and that they are an important source of economic
> inequality? Surely it is.
>
> If so, what is the point of going after "liberals" who "carry on about
> racism and sexism"? Is it likely to advance the goal of directing
> effective action to other forms of economic inequality?
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 8:35 AM, C. G. Estabrook <galliher at illinois.edu>
> wrote:
>>
>> Thank you for the kind words, David. I appreciate them particularly
>> because
>> they come from as competent and insightful an activist as yourself. 
>> People
>> should see your recent essay from "News from Neptune/TV Edition," (soon 
>> to
>> be) posted on the website <www.newsfromneptune.com>.
>>
>> I think in fact the issue at stake in this discussion is the tendency in
>> American liberalism to substitute diversity for (economic) equality as 
>> the
>> goal of progressive politics. The Obama candidacy looks like the
>> apotheosis
>> of this trend.
>>
>> The argument is sharply set out by Walter Benn Michaels in "The Trouble
>> with
>> Diversity: How We Learned to Love Identity and Ignore Inequality" (2006).
>> And it's been argued that the real story of Tom Frank's "What's the 
>> Matter
>> With Kansas?" (2004) is that the working class abandoned the Democratic
>> party when the Democrats abandoned economic equality (insofar as they 
>> ever
>> embraced it) in favor of diversity.
>>
>> Benn Michaels summarized his argument in a recent issue of the British
>> journal "New Left Review":
>>
>> "...the answer to the question, ‘Why do American liberals carry on about
>> racism and sexism when they should be carrying on about capitalism?’, is
>> pretty obvious: they carry on about racism and sexism in order to avoid
>> doing so about capitalism. Either because they genuinely do think that
>> inequality is fine as long as it is not a function of discrimination (in
>> which case, they are neoliberals of the right). Or because they think 
>> that
>> fighting against racial and sexual inequality is at least a step in the
>> direction of real equality (in which case, they are neoliberals of the
>> left). Given these options, perhaps the neoliberals of the right are in a
>> stronger position -- the economic history of the last thirty years
>> suggests
>> that diversified elites do even better than undiversified ones. But of
>> course, these are not the only possible choices."
>>
>> <http://www.newleftreview.org/?page=article&view=2731>
>>
>>
>> unionyes wrote:
>>>
>>> Ricky, et al,
>>>
>>> Carl and his wife live a comfortable middle class life.
>>>
>>> I don't think they should have to appologize for that,
>>>
>>> They have had the blessings of the perfect triad ; hard work,
>>> intelligence,
>>> and luck.
>>>
>>> What makes them special, is that they could easily take the attitude 
>>> that
>>> anyone not like them are losers !
>>>
>>> Carl's wife works MANY hours at the Catholic Worker House helping and
>>> feeding the poor ( which could be any of us and many of us if economic
>>> conditions deteriorate badly enough ). Carl and his wife are NOT just
>>> about
>>> advocating charity, but ENPOWERMENT as well !
>>>
>>> I must say though, Carl is a " class traitor ", that is, a traitor to 
>>> the
>>> ruling class ! And I love him for it !
>>>
>>> It is admirable that Carl is not ashamed of his Irish working class
>>> roots,
>>> who ( the Irish ) were exploited and worked to death for little
>>> compensation,
>>> like African Americans, Eastern Eurpopeans, and multitudes of others in
>>> the
>>> plantation they call America.
>>>
>>> If Carl was like many people in this society, he would cover-up his
>>> working
>>> class heritage, but instead he acknowledges it and learns from it, to
>>> critique the current remnants of the plantation mentality / imperialist
>>> institutional structure in this society. Even if we may disagree at 
>>> times
>>> with some of his views, we should respect him for the time and effort he
>>> puts
>>> into ; articulating, analyzing, and advocating for a better country and 
>>> a
>>> better world, for ALL of us.
>>>
>>> My hat is off to Carl and his wonderful wife for being who they are and
>>> doing
>>> what so few are willing to do in contemporary America.... " walk it like
>>> they
>>> talk it " !
>>>
>>> They can't help the way they are, and I am honored to know them !
>>>
>>> David Johnson
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "C. G. Estabrook"
>>> <galliher at illinois.edu> To: "Ricky Baldwin" <baldwinricky at yahoo.com> Cc:
>>> "peace-discuss"
>>> <peace-discuss at anti-war.net> Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 8:06 PM
>>> Subject:
>>> Re: [Peace-discuss] Anti-racism
>>>
>>>
>>>> Ricky Baldwin wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Carl,
>>>>>
>>>>> I've been to your house, seen your car in the lot. When it comes to 
>>>>> the
>>>>> reckoning you get diddly squat.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>> http://lists.chambana.net/cgi-bin/listinfo/peace-discuss
>
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