[Peace-discuss] July 4 parade

[Ricky Baldwin]

I think some of those first quotes that Carl listed, judiciously edited as he suggests, would maximize the potential of AWARE's entry to undermine the current politics of war - which I think is usually our goal.

The longer and more complex historical 140-odd year-old debate, I think, works better face-to-face or even better over email - and I think we don't all agree about these issues, either, whereas I think we do all agree with the sentiments expressed in the Lincoln quotes Carl dug out for us ... 
 Ricky Baldwin 


"Speak your mind even if your voice shakes." - Maggie Kuhn 




________________________________
From: E. Wayne Johnson <ewj at pigs.ag>
To: C. G. Estabrook <galliher at illinois.edu>
Cc: Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at anti-war.net>; Karen Medina <kmedina67 at gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 8:11:29 AM
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] July 4 parade

For those who don't know me, I had better clarify that I do not subscribe to Lincoln's racist notions.
I send this as clarification that "Honest Abe", as they called him, 
was motivated by political expediencies not egalitarian principles.

It has been suggested that Lincoln should have been Prosecuted as a War Criminal rather that Idolized as some sort of Hero.

Some have gone so far as to enumerate the accounts against Lincoln--- 
	* Violation of the Constitution and his oath of office by invading and waging war against states that had legally and democratically withdrawn their consent from his government, inaugurating one of the cruelest wars in recent history.
	* Subverting the duly constituted governments of states that had not left the Union, thereby subverting their constitutional right to "republican form of government."
	* Raising troops without the approval of Congress and expending funds without appropriation.
	* Suspending the writ of habeas corpus and interfering with the press without due process, imprisoning thousands of citizens without charge or trial, and closing courts by military force where no hostilities were occurring.
	* Corrupting the currency by manipulations and paper swindles unheard of in previous US history.
	* Fraud and corruption by appointees and contractors with his knowledge and connivance. 
	* Continuing the war by raising ever-larger bodies of troops by conscription and hiring of foreign mercenaries and refusing to negotiate in good faith for an end to hostilities.
	* Confiscation of millions of dollars of property by his agents in the South, especially cotton, without legal proceedings.
	* Waging war against women and children and civilian property as the matter of policy 

On 5/20/2009 6:46 AM, E. Wayne Johnson wrote: 
Another Lincoln quote:

“I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races - that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the Negro should be denied everything."

-  Charleston IL September 18, 1858




On 5/19/2009 12:17 PM, C. G. Estabrook wrote: 
The problem is that he probably didn't say it... 

Karen Medina wrote: 

"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the 
people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of 
the time." 
Abraham Lincoln, (attributed) 
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