[Peace-discuss] July 4th float -- okay, seriously...

Sun May 24 12:23:23 CDT 2009

Actually, I have a lot of respect for Wikipedia and think it a valuable
tool.  I was just noting the change in status that has taken place and the
fact that a lay contributor based resource has become an authoritative
reference replace the old expert generated references.  I personally have
found it to be very reliable and informative inmost matters.  What it often
lacks are footnotes and cited references, which the traditional references
provided.

From: Morton K. Brussel [mailto:brussel at illinois.edu] 
Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:56 AM
To: LAURIE SOLOMON
Cc: 'Jenifer Cartwright'; 'E. Wayne Johnson'; 'Ron Szoke'; 'Peace-discuss'
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] July 4th float -- okay, seriously...

Just to note that Wikipedia seems to have been rated as just as reliable for
information as the Encyclopedia Brittanica (by some reliable study (NYT?)?
whose name now escapes me).  --mkb

On May 24, 2009, at 2:06 AM, LAURIE SOLOMON wrote:

Hmmm!  It appears that Wikipedia has now assumed the status of being the
encyclopedia of record, replacing the Encyclopedia Britannica. Next, I
assume it will become the reference of record replacing the New York Times
as the newspaper of record and all those many history books and academic
journals and treatises which academics write to justify their existence and
libraries keep on their reference shelves for the same reason.

Maybe we should Google Wikipedia and ask it what the theme of our float
should be; surely it will have some advice as to what anti-war and
anti-racism groups should do in terms of a float for a 4th of July parade
with the designated theme we have been given that will win the day and
converts without putting off the very people we seek to recruit to our
position and cause. J  Of course, we could always raise the following
question as a question : if Lincoln did not exist, what white guy would
Obama model himself after and would that guy be a member of the contemporary
Republican Party?

From: peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net
[mailto:peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net] On Behalf Of Jenifer
Cartwright
Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 12:55 AM
To: E. Wayne Johnson; Ron Szoke
Cc: Peace-discuss
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] July 4th float -- okay, seriously...

Lincoln on Race and Slavery puts things into perspective -- and gives
Lincoln points for misinterpreting Jefferson's words (all men created equal,
etc) in the Declaration of Independence. Thanks for sending the review, Ron.

Here's Wikipedia on Lincoln. Indisputable that Lincoln -- tho' far from
perfect -- was nevertheless a remarkable man who successfully dealt with
unimaginable challenges during his life -- surely the worst of any president
in our nation's history -- and acquited himself well. Born into poverty and
self-educated -- only 18 months of formal schooling. Personal losses and
tragedy thruout his life didn't defeat him... Surely there's lots of
positive stuff here even for AWARE to choose from???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln

 --Jenifer

--- On Sat, 5/23/09, Ron Szoke <r-szoke at illinois.edu> wrote:

From: Ron Szoke <r-szoke at illinois.edu>
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] July 4th float -- okay, seriously...
To: "E. Wayne Johnson" <ewj at pigs.ag>
Cc: "Peace-discuss" <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
Date: Saturday, May 23, 2009, 10:01 PM

Excerpt from review of recent Lincoln/racism book:

NY Review of Books
Volume 56, Number 10 . June 11, 2009
Lincoln's Black History

By Garry Wills

Lincoln on Race and Slavery
edited and with an introduction by Henry Louis Gates Jr., and coedited by 
Donald Yacovone
Princeton University Press, 343 pp., $24.95

Abraham Lincoln was born into a racist family, in a racist region of our
country, 
during a racist era of our history. It would have been amazing if he had not

begun his life as a racist. Piety toward his memory suppressed that fact for

generations. Most of us wanted Lincoln to be free of racism, and we read the

evidence to arrive at that conclusion. No one wanted that more than blacks. 
Henry Louis Gates, the Harvard professor, notes that blacks-from Booker T. 
Washington to Ralph Ellison-did even more than whites to enshrine Lincoln as

"the American philosopher-king and patron saint of race relations." Gates 
writes of himself (born 1950), "Like most African Americans of my
generation, I 
was raised to believe that Lincoln hated slavery because he loved the
slaves.." 
Black freedmen raised $17,000 for the 1876 statue of Lincoln freeing the
slaves 
that stands in Lincoln Park, Washington.
.   .   .

See:  http://www.nybooks.com/articles/22750 

Something honoring Frederick Douglas would seem another possibility in 
harmony with the "legacy of Lincoln" theme.  

-- Ron

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