[Peace-discuss] Nobel Committee, Strategic As Ever, Taps Obama for Peace Prize

Fri Oct 9 13:52:49 CDT 2009

What objective relevant data are you referring to? Tutu has  
continually praised Obama. That's neither here nor there. Tutu was not  
defending Apartheid in South Africa, as Obama is defending/extending  
the American presence in Afghanistan (or Iraq).

Is your stated position: Withdraw from Afghanistan with a Public,  
Negotiated Timetable the same as Obama's?

I have not followed Al Jazeera recently, but I recall that Al Jazeera  
has generally supported Saudi and Egyptian positions relative to  
Israel/Palestine/Gaza. They too have been critical of (some) U.S.  
policies.

You have really finessed my questions.

On Oct 9, 2009, at 1:30 PM, Robert Naiman wrote:

> Tutu praised the award to Obama - another piece of objective data for
> you to ignore.
>
> I doubt you can produce any objective evidence for the statement that
> Al Jazeera reflects more conservative views in the region - certainly
> not with respect to U.S. policy, where they have been quite critical.
>
> My position on Afghanistan is quite clear, and has been for some time:
> withdraw according to a public, negotiated timetable:
>
> Withdraw from Afghanistan with a Public, Negotiated Timetable
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWk2aapaywk
>
> On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 2:22 PM, Morton K. Brussel <brussel at illinois.edu 
> > wrote:
>> I continue to believe that the U.S. has no right to be in  
>> Afghanistan (or
>> Iraq, Columbia, Africa, …) except to give economic/humanitarian aid  
>> and to
>> provide and manage reparations for the destruction they've caused.
>> And you, Bob? Do you think that Obama is doing good in Afghanistan  
>> and for
>> the Afghan people with his escalation of the conflict there? Or is  
>> he doing
>> it for narrow American self/national/corporate interest? It seems  
>> clear to
>> me that he's knows that he's in trouble there, so he's trying to  
>> triage
>> among more or less belligerent positions. He's being strategic, in  
>> your
>> words.
>> With Obama, do you favor a continuing American military presence  
>> there, …so
>> as to defeat Al Qaeda?
>> Al Jazeera tends to reflect the more conservative Arab views of the  
>> ME in my
>> opinion, so the fact that they liked your piece neither surprises nor
>> informs me.
>> The juxtaposition/comparison of Desmond Tutu with Obama is  
>> ludicrous, except
>> for the shade of their skins. I could elaborate, but not here.
>> I recommend the article by Glenn Greenwald: He argues with the  
>> "peace prize"
>> in more detail than have I:
>> [http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/10/09-7]
>> …Through no fault of his own, Obama presides over a massive war- 
>> making state
>> that spends on its military close to what the rest of the world  
>> spends
>> combined.  The U.S.accounts for almost 70% of worldwide arms  
>> sales.  We're
>> currently occupying and waging wars in two separate Muslim  
>> countries and
>> making clear we reserve the "right" to attack a third.  Someone who  
>> made
>> meaningful changes to those realities would truly be a man of  
>> peace.  It's
>> unreasonable to expect that Obama would magically transform all of  
>> this in
>> nine months, and he certainly hasn't.  Instead, he presides over it  
>> and is
>> continuing much of it.  One can reasonably debate how much blame he  
>> merits
>> for all of that, but there are simply no meaningful "peace"  
>> accomplishment
>> in his record -- at least not yet -- and there's plenty of the  
>> opposite.
>> That's what makes this Prize so painfully and self-evidently  
>> ludicrous.
>> You are being overly strategic in your analysis and your judgement  
>> (in my
>> opinion)
>> --mkb
>> .
>> On Oct 9, 2009, at 12:08 PM, Robert Naiman wrote:
>>
>> Well, as someone who travels and reads internationally, I would hope,
>> Mort, that you would consider a more thoughtful, less knee-jerk
>> response.
>>
>> The Nobel Committee is chosen by the Norwegian parliament. Do you
>> really think their goal in life is to whitewash U.S. imperialism?
>>
>> P.S. Al Jazeera called. They saw my piece, and they really liked it.
>> That tells you something about where the debate that matters is.
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Morton K. Brussel <brussel at illinois.edu 
>> >
>> wrote:
>>
>> All you're saying is that the Nobel Peace Prize is a farce.
>>
>> "Works in progress" include building up the military, bombing  
>> innocents,
>>
>> excusing Israel's atrocities, and repression, etc.. You seem to be  
>> excusing
>>
>> the Committee, and thereby Obama, for the latter's scurrilous acts  
>> (not
>>
>> words). So far his nice words have have been belied by both his  
>> actions and
>>
>> non-actions. Perhaps he's a wee bit "better", certainly more clever  
>> than
>>
>> Bush, but all this award does is put the label "peace" in an  
>> Orwellian
>>
>> context.
>>
>> Such a "strategy" be damned! Hope remains eternal and evanescent  
>> with Obama
>>
>> it seems.
>>
>> --mkb
>>
>> On Oct 9, 2009, at 7:51 AM, Robert Naiman wrote:
>>
>> Some initial commentary has called the award unprecedented and
>>
>> wondered why the committee would give President Obama the award when
>>
>> he "hasn't done anything yet." But anyone who thinks this award is
>>
>> unprecedented hasn't been paying attention. The Nobel Committee has a
>>
>> long history of praising "works in progress" that it wants to assist,
>>
>> like the downfall of apartheid. The Committee likes Obama's  
>> diplomatic
>>
>> moves on Iran and Afghanistan and wants to help shield Obama from his
>>
>> domestic adversaries.
>>
>>
>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-naiman/nobel-committee-strategic_b_314980.html
>>
>> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/10/9/82426/1566
>>
>> http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/node/366
>>
>> --
>>
>> Robert Naiman
>>
>> Just Foreign Policy
>>
>> www.justforeignpolicy.org
>>
>> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
>>
>> Withdraw from Afghanistan with a Public, Negotiated Timetable
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWk2aapaywk
>>
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>>
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>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Robert Naiman
>> Just Foreign Policy
>> www.justforeignpolicy.org
>> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
>>
>> Withdraw from Afghanistan with a Public, Negotiated Timetable
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWk2aapaywk
>>
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Robert Naiman
> Just Foreign Policy
> www.justforeignpolicy.org
> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
>
> Withdraw from Afghanistan with a Public, Negotiated Timetable
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWk2aapaywk

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