[Peace-discuss] Tony's comments

[David Gill]

Estabrook needlessly editorializes when describing Stewart as a "peculiar Brit".  Once more, I repeat, when Estabrook or anyone else on this listserv has spent time interacting at length with thousands of people who live within the villages of Afghanistan, perhaps then they might have a thorough understanding of how best to minimize hardship in the lives of the Afghani people.

As for the forgiving of Mr. Johnson: based on his history, I have little doubt, that when the next conflict is being debated, that if it is strongly supported by the American public, that Mr. Johnson will be fully behind it.  

David Gill


----- Original Message ----
From: C. G. Estabrook <galliher at illinois.edu>
To: unionyes <unionyes at ameritech.net>
Cc: Peace-discuss List <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>; David Gill <docgill37 at yahoo.com>
Sent: Sat, October 17, 2009 4:36:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Tony's comments

No, he doesn't.

He supports some version of Obama's war -- by "10,000 to 20,000 special operations forces in [Afghanistan] to prevent any further expansion of al-Qaida."

He says he "respects the opinion on the subject [of] Mr. [Rory] Stewart." Stewart, a peculiar Brit, walked across Afghanistan and wrote a book about it: he has no principled objection to the occupation of Afghanistan, but he doesn't think the US (and the UK) are doing it very well.

Stewart now heads that propaganda mill, the Carr Center at Harvard, the ornament of which is the awful Samantha Power, apologist for Clinton's war on Serbia. (The former director was the even worse Michael Ignatieff.) For more on Stewart's views, see

<http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/c7414148-7d60-11de-b8ee-00144feabdc0.html>; and
<http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2009/may/17/rory-stewart-afghanistan-traditional-skills>.

Gill is (perhaps unintentionally) misleading when he says that he is not "as forgiving toward Mr. Johnson as Mr. Estabrook seems to be."  He knows perfectly well that I condemned Johnson's views on Iraq when I ran against him and afterwards.  I haven't changed my views, but Johnson seems to have changed his, in that he now calls for withdrawal from Afghanistan -- which Gill opposes.

Like many people, Democrats and others, understandably embarrassed about their support for murder in Afghanistan now, Gill seems to prefer to talk about the actions of the previous administration.  --CGE


unionyes wrote:
> So what is your position on Afganistan ?
> 
> Maybe I was misinformed !
> 
> Do you support a TOTAL U.S. military ( including the U.S. government paid mercenaries, Blackwater et al. ) withdrawl from BOTH Afganistan and Iraq ?
> 
> David J.
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Gill" <docgill37 at yahoo.com>
> To: "unionyes" <unionyes at ameritech.net>
> Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 11:53 PM
> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Tony's comments
> 
> 
> David J.: Not at all clear how you've dragged me into being a supporter of the occupation of Iraq-- I've publicly viewed this as a farce since before its inception. And the consequences of that occupation are far too calamitous for me to be as forgiving toward Mr. Johnson as Mr. Estabrook seems to be.
> 
> To repeat: there is no "party line" into which I buy. When any of you walk from one end of Afghanistan to the other, by yourself, and spend the time first-hand with an extremely wide variety of Afghani people, in 500 villages, I'll likely accord the same respect to your opinion on the subject as I currently do Mr. Stewart's.
> 
> David Gill
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: unionyes <unionyes at ameritech.net>
> To: Peace-discuss List <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
> Sent: Fri, October 16, 2009 6:14:02 PM
> Subject: Fw: [Peace-discuss] Tony's comments
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "unionyes" <unionyes at ameritech.net>
> To: <illyes at illinois.edu>
> Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 6:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Tony's comments
> 
> 
>> Bob,
>> 
>> Let's be objective about this !
>> 
>> WE ( The U.S. Government ) have NO right to have invaded Afganistan and WE certainly do NOT have ANY right to continue to occupy THEIR country !
>> 
>> Gill is excellent on the Health Care issue, BUT, he is buying into the " party line " about the continued corporate imperialistic occupation of BOTH Afganistan and Iraq !
>> 
>> The wars of terror ( NOT the war on terror ) is continueing and being EXPANDED under Obama, and you know Bob as well as I do, that the money, murder, and mayhem, that we perpetuate abroad, is that much less that is available to spend here at " home " ( in the U.S. ) for Health Care, Green Jobs, etc..