[Peace-discuss] Tony's comments

Sun Oct 18 13:44:50 CDT 2009

I am pleased to say that Tony Pomonis is my friend, and I am encouraged by 
that fact.

I read the transcript of Rory Stewart's interview on the Moyers show.

The main thing that I gleaned from it is that Stewart is suggesting we need 
more troops in Afghanstan because the slippery Al-Qaida is now in Pakistan. 
If there was some other take-home message that I missed, then a 
clarification is welcome.

I am reminded that a young man bearing a clipboard passed by me about a year 
ago and suggested that the terrorists were in Afghanistan, therefore I 
should vote for Mr. Obama, who should be encouraged by my vote to pursue 
those terrorists into their lairs in Afghanistan.  I suspected this might be 
a teachable moment for this slight young Democrat.  I explained to him 
unequivocally that the real terrorists we had better be concerned about were 
not holed up in Afghanistan or Iraq or Iran or Pakistan but were actually 
entrenched in the environs of Washington DC.  I further explained that Mr. 
Obama seemed to be as much of a terrorist as his colleagues and doubted that 
there was any utility at all in my voting for him.

I would turn this same spotlight on Dr. Gill just as Tony Pomonis has done, 
but I would add this.  I am actually not a great fan of Timothy Johnson.  I 
truly can't stand Johnson's NeoCon campaign manager, which could be ample 
reason for me to doubt Mr. Johnson's faculties of judgment.   But indeed 
that Johnson seems to be at present voting pretty much the way I want him to 
(against the bailouts, against FISA, against the War in Afghanistan, and for 
an Audit of the Federal Reserve).   Far be it from me to oppose a 
congressman who is voting the way I want him to, regardless of how he may 
have acted in the past.  Mr. Johnson has gone against the mainstream 
Republican agenda, in what appears to be a pursuit of principles and 
listening to his constituents.  Repentance is still a virtue, not a 
weakness, and a wise man is generally said to change his mind at times.

On the other hand, Dr. Gill makes it clear that he is a partisan adherent to 
the gills.  A vote for him would be a vote for sustaining the War, and 
indeed Dr. Gill seems to indicate that he will follow the Democrat party 
line submissively unto the ultimate sacrifice of principles.

Methinks we have been "gillflirted" quite enough already.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Gill" <docgill37 at yahoo.com>
To: "unionyes" <unionyes at ameritech.net>; "Peace-discuss List" 
<peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 10:00 AM
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Tony's comments

Regarding Iraq: I was publicly against our involvement there from the time I 
began my initial campaign in December, 2002, and I have always opposed our 
involvement there.

Regarding Afghanistan, I oppose the concept of "nation-building" there 
through military action, and I view issues related to the Taliban as items 
that should be dealt with by the Afghani people themselves-- their opinions 
of the Taliban vary widely, and I don't think it is the business of America 
to be involved with their internal decisions.

I support drawing down American forces, leaving in place a relatively small 
number of Special Operations Forces, to prevent the re-establishment of 
Al-Qaida training camps. I would encourage all to watch the interview with 
Rory Stewart on "Bill Moyers Journal" :
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/09252009/profile.html

David Gill

----- Original Message ----
From: unionyes <unionyes at ameritech.net>
To: Peace-discuss List <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>; David Gill 
<docgill37 at yahoo.com>
Sent: Sat, October 17, 2009 1:52:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Tony's comments

So what is your position on Afganistan ?

Maybe I was misinformed !

Do you support a TOTAL U.S. military ( including the U.S. government paid 
mercenaries, Blackwater et al. ) withdrawl from BOTH Afganistan and Iraq ?

David J.

----- Original Message ----- From: "David Gill" <docgill37 at yahoo.com>
To: "unionyes" <unionyes at ameritech.net>
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 11:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Tony's comments

David J.: Not at all clear how you've dragged me into being a supporter of 
the occupation of Iraq-- I've publicly viewed this as a farce since before 
its inception. And the consequences of that occupation are far too 
calamitous for me to be as forgiving toward Mr. Johnson as Mr. Estabrook 
seems to be.

To repeat: there is no "party line" into which I buy. When any of you walk 
from one end of Afghanistan to the other, by yourself, and spend the time 
first-hand with an extremely wide variety of Afghani people, in 500 
villages, I'll likely accord the same respect to your opinion on the subject 
as I currently do Mr. Stewart's.

David Gill

----- Original Message ----
From: unionyes <unionyes at ameritech.net>
To: Peace-discuss List <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
Sent: Fri, October 16, 2009 6:14:02 PM
Subject: Fw: [Peace-discuss] Tony's comments

----- Original Message ----- From: "unionyes" <unionyes at ameritech.net>
To: <illyes at illinois.edu>
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 6:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Tony's comments

> Bob,
>
> Let's be objective about this !
>
> WE ( The U.S. Government ) have NO right to have invaded Afganistan and WE 
> certainly do NOT have ANY right to continue to occupy THEIR country !
>
> Gill is excellent on the Health Care issue, BUT, he is buying into the " 
> party line " about the continued corporate imperialistic occupation of 
> BOTH Afganistan and Iraq !
>
> The wars of terror ( NOT the war on terror ) is continueing and being 
> EXPANDED under Obama, and you know Bob as well as I do, that the money, 
> murder, and mayhem, that we perpetuate abroad, is that much less that is 
> available to spend here at " home " ( in the U.S. ) for Health Care, Green 
> Jobs, etc..
>
> David J.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: <illyes at illinois.edu>
> To: <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
> Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 5:24 PM
> Subject: [Peace-discuss] Tony's comments
>
>
>> Sorry, Tony. I didn't notice your email till Dave Johnson reposted it.
>>
>> It can be argued that we owe the Afghans. We and the Russians trashed 
>> their country in a proxy war. I am of the opinion that just leaving is 
>> the best plan, but I would not reject out of hand having a small military 
>> presence for the single purpose of providing security for infrastructure 
>> projects using aid money supplied by us..
>>
>> I'm not sure how radical a Libertarian you are, but since you supported 
>> Costas, a Green, I suspect you find arguments such as the above at least 
>> worth considering.
>>
>> Bob
>> _______________________________________________
>> Peace-discuss mailing list
>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>> http://lists.chambana.net/cgi-bin/listinfo/peace-discuss
>

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