[Peace-discuss] AWARE

Thu Sep 3 03:06:59 CDT 2009

On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 1:43 PM, C. G. Estabrook <galliher at illinois.edu>wrote:

I thought that that was what you did for me, John, "...to hold, as 'twere,
> the mirror up to nature"?
>

It does appear to be one of the things I was put on this earth for.  But
most of the time I seem to be woefully inadequate to the task.  :-(

Incidentally, in my own dictionary perusings and musings - to say nothing of
my life experience - I'm not seeing anything about a person who pontificates
as being a "bridge builder":

*pon·tif·i·cate
* <http://dictionary.reference.com/audio.html/ahd4WAV/P0439200/pontificate>
 (pŏn-tĭf'ĭ-kĭt, -kāt')
n.  The office or term of office of a pontiff.
intr.v.   (-kāt') *pon·tif·i·cat·ed*, *pon·tif·i·cat·ing*, *pon·tif·i·cates*

   1. To express opinions or judgments in a dogmatic way.
   2. To administer the office of a pontiff.

[Latin pontificātus, from pontifex, pontific-, *pontifex*; see * pontifex*.
V., from Medieval Latin pontificāre, pontificāt-, *to act as an ecclesiastic
*, from Latin pontifex.]
*pon·tif'i·ca'tion** n.*, *pon·tif'i·ca'tor** n.

> But (from a Louse to a Mouse) Rabbie Burns came closer to my condition when
> he wrote,
>
>        Wee, sleekit, cow'rin, tim'rous beastie,
>        O, what a panic's in thy breastie!
>        Thou need na start awa sae hasty,
>        Wi' bickering brattle!
>
> --WSCTB
>
>
> John W. wrote:
>
>> O wad some gift the Giftie gie us
>> To see oursels as ithers see us!
>>
>> --Robert Burns, I believe
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 12:34 PM, C. G. Estabrook <galliher at illinois.edu<mailto:
>> galliher at illinois.edu>> wrote:
>>
>>    "...intervention by leadership"?  AWARE has leadership?  When &
>>    where has it
>>    "intervened"?
>>
>>    Do I understand correctly that you're objecting to debate on a
>>    discussion
>>    list...?  Or saying just that "pontificators" have to shut up?
>>
>>    (A pontificator -- I have to hurry to point it out before Wayne does
>>    -- is
>>    literally a bridge-builder, and that surely is something we need to
>> do.)
>>
>>    Yet you conclude, "May the conversation continue..."  OK.  --CGE
>>
>>
>>
>>    jgeo61 at comcast.net <mailto:jgeo61 at comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>        I would be happy to.  As I understand, the AWARE group was
>>        created to tackle the issues of Peace and Justice and be an
>>        outlet for folks living in the area
>>        to feel they had a voice and to take action.  The goals of the
>>        AWARE group
>>        are in theory decided upon by the membership via, ie: surveys,
>>        board recommendations etc.  When I see only 3 - 4 people on the
>>        peace-discuss list serve pontificating for weeks and months at a
>>        time and when the conversations become so heated that there
>>        needs to be an intervention by leadership, I
>>        understand clearly that the "discussion" has ceased to exist and
>>        in fact has
>>        slipped to a typical "I'm right, your dead wrong" situation. We
>>        as longtime
>>        peace activists, know first hand how distructive this is to the
>>        work that
>>        needs to be done.  It is an unecessary distraction.
>>
>>        I am tired of the situation where we are contuously losing
>>        members due to their frustration and unmet needs.
>>
>>        In my mind, to have a meaningful discussion, not a debate, to
>>        explore the "root causes" of war requires intensive listening on
>>        both sides. Which is clearly, quite clearly, not in practice here.
>>
>>        May the conversation continue.
>>
>>        Joy George
>>
>>
>>        ----- Original Message ----- From: "C. G. Estabrook"
>>        <galliher at illinois.edu <mailto:galliher at illinois.edu>>
>>         To: jgeo61 at comcast.net <mailto:jgeo61 at comcast.net> Cc:
>>        peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>>        <mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> Sent: Wednesday,
>>         September 2, 2009 9:23:29 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
>>        Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] AWARE
>>
>>        Would you be willing to be a bit more specific?
>>
>>        What are "the goals and needs of the entire group" that are not
>>        reflected on
>>         peace-discuss?  And what is "the entire group"? AWARE members?
>>         All those in
>>         favor of peace?
>>
>>        If the list doesn't reflect such views, the solution would seem
>>        to be inclusion, not exclusion, viz. "those who want to have the
>>        ongoing debate discussions find their own regular venue..."
>>
>>        The "work to be done" seems to me importantly to include
>>        understanding what we're doing and why.  --CGE
>>
>>
>>        jgeo61 at comcast.net <mailto:jgeo61 at comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>            This is quite an accusation.  You make it sound as if we are
>>            pouting, taking our toys home, since we didn't get our way
>>            on the playground.  My concern is that this discussion group
>>            does not reflect the goals or needs of the entire group and
>>            in fact the current behavior has driven away
>>            existing/potential members.
>>
>>            If we want to "make a difference" in the peace effort, we
>>            must stick together to be a unified force, otherwise we
>>            appear only to be squabbling chickens.  I strongly believe
>>            that if those who want to have the ongoing debate
>>            discussions find their own regular venue and talk until the
>>            cows come home. There is work to be done and there is no
>>            time like the present to get back to it.
>>
>>            Joy
>>
>
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