[Peace-discuss] State Department Terminates Aid to Honduras Coup Regime

Fri Sep 4 10:57:19 CDT 2009

If this argument is valid, why doesn't it work for Iraq and Afghanistan, where 
"the U.S. is very deeply entangled"?  --CGE

Robert Naiman wrote:
> As for the cessation of U.S. military activity in the region,
> including removing the base in Honduras, and stopping the basing
> agreement in Colombia, I'm all for it.
> 
> "Non-intervention," as you describe it, is not an item on the menu in
> this restaurant at this time. The U.S. is very deeply entangled in
> Honduras. It has trained and supplied the Honduran military. The
> choices before the U.S. are to support the coup or oppose it. The
> "non-intervention" you advocate, if implemented, would equal support
> for the coup. That's how it will be perceived - indeed, is already
> being perceived - in Honduras and throughout Latin America.
> 
> On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 11:18 AM, E. Wayne Johnson<ewj at pigs.ag> wrote:
>> Whether or not Honduras has an impeachment provision
>> seems to be a matter of semiotics.  It appears that the
>> Congress decided to remove Zelaya and the Supreme Court ordered him removed,
>> the "equivalent" to impeachment and removal.
>>
>> Congress voted to
>> remove him for what it called "repeated violations of the constitution and
>> the law", and the Supreme Court said it had ordered the president to be
>> removed from office to protect law and order.
>>
>> Here's the link to the BBC page:
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8124154.stm
>>
>> Honduras apparently has a provision for action under duress, so the coup is
>> not exactly "illegal".
>>
>> Article 24 of Honduras' penal code will exonerate the joint chiefs of staff
>> who made the decision,
>>
>> because it allows for making tough decisions based on the good of the state,
>> Inestroza said.
>>
>> But, My Original question was "Why are we meddling with the affairs of
>> Honduras, a sovereign state?"
>>
>> Should China impose monetary policy sanctions on the US because Mr. Obama
>> has proposed illegal detention of
>> dissidents, or because Obama has continued Bush's unconstitutional
>> activities, or because the US is in the process
>> of escalating its occupation of Afghanistan?  Jimmy Carter told us that the
>> Soviet occupation of Afghanistan was so
>> immoral that Amerikans ought to starve the Soviets into submission.  Carter
>> instituted a grain embargo that
>> devastated the American Farmer.  How can we be on the moral high ground in
>> Afghanistan while the Soviets
>> were scoundrels for doing nothing worse than what we are doing?
>>
>> Isn't the most appropriate response of the US a cessation of military
>> activity in the region and a non-interventionist foreign policy?
>>
>>
>>
>> On 9/4/2009 8:22 AM, Robert Naiman wrote:
>>
>> The Honduran Congress never "impeached" President Zelaya. There is no
>> impeachment provision in the Honduran Constitution.
>>
>> The top legal adviser to the Honduran military admitted that the
>> Honduran military broke the law:
>>
>> http://www.miamiherald.com/1506/story/1125872.html
>>
>> Do you have a link to that BBC story?
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 8:49 AM, E. Wayne Johnson<ewj at pigs.ag> wrote:
>>
>>
>> The BBC reports:
>>
>> Tension had been brewing in Honduras over recent months. Mr Zelaya sacked
>> the head of the armed forces, who refused to give logistical support for the
>> 28 June vote. The Supreme Court overruled him, saying the army chief should
>> be reinstated.
>>
>> When Mr Zelaya insisted the consultation would go ahead,
>>
>> Since Honduras's own Congress has IMPEACHED and voted to Remove Zelaya, and
>> the
>> Honduras's own Supreme Court has ordered Zelaya's removal, How is it that
>> Anyone could
>> say that his removal is Illegal, since it would appear that Due Process and
>> the Rule of Law is
>> being followed?
>>
>> On 9/4/2009 7:36 AM, E. Wayne Johnson wrote:
>>
>> Of course I am pleased that the US is terminating its "aid" to Honduras.
>> Honduras
>> should be glad too.  Amerika's jelly beans have fishhooks in them.
>>
>> What business does the United States have interfering with the conduct of
>> government in Honduras,
>> a sovereign state?
>>
>> The American battle for independence from the bloody British was an illegal
>> coup.
>> We have a military base in Honduras.
>> Why shouldn't they throw us out of there if they could?
>>
>> How is our meddling with Honduras not an act of aggression against a weak
>> sovereign nation?
>> How is it any different from what we are doing in Iraq and Afghanistan?
>>
>> It appears that the initiating spark in Honduras is an insistance on
>> violation of term limits by the now-ousted President.
>> What is it that we like about that?
>>
>> Is the US on the wrong side of the fight?  (once again?)
>>
>>
>> On 9/4/2009 7:04 AM, Robert Naiman wrote:
>>
>> I think Jenifer meant to say, "stopped short of calling it a military coup."
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 7:23 AM, John W.<jbw292002 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 7:15 PM, Jenifer Cartwright <jencart13 at yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Stopped short of calling it a coup, but better than hoped for, huh?
>>  --Jenifer
>>
>>
>> Huh?????
>>
>>
>> U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
>> Office of the Spokesman
>>
>> For Immediate Release
>>
>> September 3, 2009
>> 2009/869
>>
>>
>> STATEMENT BY IAN KELLY
>>
>> Termination of Assistance and Other Measures Affecting the De Facto
>> Regime in Honduras
>>
>> The Department of State announces the termination of a broad range of
>> assistance to the government of Honduras as a result of the coup
>> d’etat that took place on June 28.  The Secretary already had
>> suspended assistance shortly after the coup.
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