[Peace-discuss] State Department Terminates Aid to Honduras Coup Regime

[C. G. Estabrook]

I think Mort is quite right.  I would add only "and withdraw in accord with the 
wishes of the Afghan people" to (2) below, and that's implied.  --CGE


Morton K. Brussel wrote:
> Not a bad list, thank you, but I would put a few items differently for 
> Afghanistan policy:
> 
> 1) Elections sponsored by an occupying foreign power are inherently 
> illegitimate. Only after that power agrees to withdraw can an election be
> meaningful. "We" are not neutral players in the Afghan game. Even if it seems
> unrealizable/impractical, that is a policy that those favoring justice should
> support.
> 
> 2) Rather than "not escalate militarily", it should be to cease all military
> activities (except under strict conditions those which are purely in self
> defense).
> 
> --mkb
> 
> On Sep 4, 2009, at 1:49 PM, Robert Naiman wrote:
> 
>> Well, first of all I should make clear that I don't think it will be 
>> documented that Karzai stole the election, because I don't yet think that
>> he stole it, although there is still outstanding information. It seems
>> clear that Karzai's people tried to steal a bunch of votes, but so did
>> Abdullah's people. The official returns are close to the pre-election
>> polling.
>> 
>> But, in any event, in Afghanistan I think that the U.S. should, in the 
>> short run:
>> 
>> - allow the election process to play out, including the international 
>> process for verifying the vote count - support the formation of a national
>> unity government - not escalate militarily - announce a timetable for the
>> withdrawal of U.S. troops - support the proposal of the UN for a broad
>> process of national reconcilation, including the Taliban. - as part of
>> "support," be willing to make concessions as part of negotiations,
>> including agreeing to a timetable for total withdrawal, the release of
>> prisoners, ending military operations, accepting that reforms of the Afghan
>> constitution be considered.
>> 
>> with respect to Honduras, I think the U.S. should:
>> 
>> - continue to support the OAS consensus for the restoration of democracy in
>> Honduras, including the return of President Zelaya - continue to pressure
>> the coup regime with sanctions targeted at the coup leaders - say that it
>> will not recognize elections that take place under the coup regime (they've
>> already said a version of this.)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 2:09 PM, C. G. Estabrook<galliher at illinois.edu> 
>> wrote:
>>> Bob--
>>> 
>>> The more I think about your example, the more puzzled I become.
>>> 
>>> "Suppose that it's documented that Karzai stole the Afghan election. And 
>>> people in Afghanistan say to the U.S., what are you going to do about 
>>> that?"
>>> 
>>> What in fact should the US do?
>>> 
>>> Finish your thought experiment. What would would be consistent in re 
>>> Honduras and Afghanistan?  --CGE
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Robert Naiman wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ... Suppose that it were documented that Karzai stole the Afghan 
>>>> election. And people in Afghanistan say to the U.S., what are you going
>>>> to do about that? And Holbrooke were to say, well, we can't interfere
>>>> in the internal affairs of Afghanistan. Karzai is the president.
>>>> 
>>>> Would anyone take that seriously? It wouldn't pass the laugh test.
>>>> 
>>>> On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 11:57 AM, C. G. Estabrook<galliher at illinois.edu>
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> If this argument is valid, why doesn't it work for Iraq and 
>>>>> Afghanistan, where "the U.S. is very deeply entangled"?  --CGE
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Robert Naiman wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> As for the cessation of U.S. military activity in the region, 
>>>>>> including removing the base in Honduras, and stopping the basing
>>>>>> agreement in Colombia, I'm all for it.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> "Non-intervention," as you describe it, is not an item on the menu
>>>>>> in this restaurant at this time. The U.S. is very deeply entangled
>>>>>> in Honduras. It has trained and supplied the Honduran military. The
>>>>>> choices before the U.S. are to support the coup or oppose it. The
>>>>>> "non-intervention" you advocate, if implemented, would equal
>>>>>> support for the coup. That's how it will be perceived - indeed, is
>>>>>> already being perceived - in Honduras and throughout Latin America.
>>>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- Robert Naiman Just Foreign Policy www.justforeignpolicy.org 
>> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
>> 
>> Senator Feingold Calls for Timetable for U.S. Troop Withdrawal from 
>> Afghanistan http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/act/exit-afghanistan 
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