Fw: [Peace-discuss] Re: Fwd: Heckling the President is Unacceptable

[C. G. Estabrook]

You make an important point.

Remember though that the British (& Canadian) prime minister is not head of 
state -- that's Queen Eliz. II -- but head of government.

The US constitution combined the two roles in order to create an executive 
strong enough to put down demands for democracy from the likes of Daniel Shays 
and his friends.

The point of the secret (and treasonous) meetings in Philadelphia in the hot 
summer of 1787 was to construct a constitution -- presently in force -- that 
would prevent the movement toward democracy.  That's clear from Madison's 
diaries,  the best source for what went on, from the man most responsible for 
the final product.

But the debate's not over.  --CGE

unionyes wrote:
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- *From:* unionyes <mailto:unionyes at ameritech.net>
>  *To:* Ricky Baldwin <mailto:baldwinricky at yahoo.com> *Sent:* Friday, 
> September 11, 2009 7:45 PM *Subject:* Re: [Peace-discuss] Re: Fwd: Heckling 
> the President is Unacceptable
> 
> Back in the 1980's, satellite T.V. ( with the super large disks ) was great (
>  if you could afford it ) in that the viewer had access to several hundred 
> channels, including hundreds of hours of raw media feeds that the corporate 
> media selected  10 - 15 minute segments from that they wanted to show on 
> their nightly " News " broadcasts. As well as, LIVE coverage of the Canadian 
> and the British Parliament, which was VERY refreshing ( ESPECIALLY the 
> British Parliamentary coverage ), in that the " Head of State  " had to face 
> ALL of the Parliament members who ; asked difficult questions, used sarcasm, 
> heckled and INSULTED the Head of State !
> 
> This to me is REAL Democracy !
> 
> NOT, the phoney superficial crap we currently have in regards to both our " 
> Pre-Packaged " corporate selected cable channels, and our " elected 
> representatives ".
> 
> I do NOT want my elected representative being " polite ", I want an 
> aggressive " advocate ", to insult and belittle if neccessary, the Head of 
> State. Rather it is Bush or Obama !
> 
> Remember people, this is suppose to be a democracy, NOT a polite corporate 
> plutocracy !
> 
> If you KNOW the reality, ie.. that corporate campaign / lobbyist money and 
> the corporate media CONTROL our country, than you will realize that this " 
> nice and polite " bullshit, is just that.
> 
> Rather you want to realize it or not, or admit it or not, we are in a WAR ( 
> us ( the citizens ) against them ( the corporate interests )), that Obama is 
> the " Good Cop " in the " Good Cop / Bad Cop " corporate interogation 
> proceedure against US, WE THE PEOPLE !
> 
> Obama is NOT our friend or our ALLY !
> 
> David J.
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- *From:* Ricky Baldwin 
> <mailto:baldwinricky at yahoo.com> *To:* 'C. G. Estabrook' 
> <mailto:galliher at illinois.edu> ; dccc at dccc.org <mailto:dccc at dccc.org> ; 
> LAURIE SOLOMON <mailto:LAURIE at ADVANCENET.NET> *Cc:* 'peace-discuss' 
> <mailto:peace-discuss at anti-war.net> *Sent:* Friday, September 11, 2009 8:57 
> AM *Subject:* RE: [Peace-discuss] Re: Fwd: Heckling the President is 
> Unacceptable
> 
> Of course the president should be able to be heckled [damn, that's an awkward
>  sentence in y'all's dialect].  The real issue is what this "douchebag" (as 
> he's apparently known on Wiki) was heckling Obama *about*: daring to 
> symbolize a politics vaguely to the left of the rightwing property-and-profit
>  consensus.
> 
> Ricky
> 
> "Speak your mind even if your voice shakes." - Maggie Kuhn
> 
> --- On *Thu, 9/10/09, LAURIE SOLOMON /<LAURIE at ADVANCENET.NET 
> <mailto:LAURIE at ADVANCENET.NET>>/* wrote:
> 
> 
> From: LAURIE SOLOMON <LAURIE at ADVANCENET.NET <mailto:LAURIE at ADVANCENET.NET>> 
> Subject: RE: [Peace-discuss] Re: Fwd: Heckling the President is Unacceptable
>  To: "'C. G. Estabrook'" <galliher at illinois.edu>, dccc at dccc.org Cc: 
> "'peace-discuss'" <peace-discuss at anti-war.net> Date: Thursday, September 10, 
> 2009, 10:05 PM
> 
> Considering that this was not a personal mailing but a mass mailing as well 
> as an attempt to raise funds rather than an attempt to engage in a serious 
> discussion or exchange, I dismissed it as not worth the time fussing about. I
>  see no reason why the President giving a public address in a public space 
> should not be open to the same abuse as any stand-up comedian giving a 
> performance on the stage in a public club.  We have this urge to deify our 
> leaders and celebrities as well as the positions they hold in society when in
>  a democracy we should be deifying the ordinary man-in-the-street and not 
> their representative and the position of citizen and not that of elected or 
> appointed offices. I find the use of this incident as distasteful as the 
> incident itself.  If we are going to insist on civility, which I believe we 
> should, the civility that we insist on should be authentic civility and 
> respect and not some pseudo-appearing façade of symbolic civility and 
> respect.
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: C. G. Estabrook Sent: Thursday, September
> 10, 2009 9:44 PM To: dccc at dccc.org
> <http://us.mc1126.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dccc@dccc.org> Cc:
> peace-discuss Subject: [Peace-discuss] Re: Fwd: Heckling the President is 
> Unacceptable
> 
> Hypocritical moron.
> 
> We'd be a lot better off if we'd heckled Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, 
> Carter, Reagan, Bush Sr, Clinton, Bush Jr, and the present incumbent (to 
> stick to the last 50 years) a good deal more than we did.  It would help if 
> we'd impeached them when we had the chance.
> 
> Because we didn't, Obama thinks he's free to continue killing people with 
> impunity, even in the face of the opinion of a majority of Americans.  --CGE
> 
> 
> Jon Vogel, DCCC Executive Director wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Carl--
>> 
>> Considering the overwhelming grassroots response to Republican Congressman 
>> Joe Wilson screaming out "you lie" on the House
> Floor last
>> night during President Obama's address, I wanted to make sure
> you saw
>> our earlier message.
>> 
>> *And late this afternoon, news broke that Congressman Wilson
> refused to
>> issue a personal apology from the Floor of the House.* ...