[Peace-discuss] ron paul on obama and the antiwar movement

Fri Sep 18 12:29:01 CDT 2009

It's an excellent question, Stuart, and a good point, too.

I do actually pass by antiwar.com from time to time.  Good points often there.  News well-done, etc.

But that's all what they're SAYING.  What are they DOING?  I can't tell from the site.  In fact, I can't tell from ANY site what the invisible hordes of anti-war conservatives are doing at the behest of these writers.  Compared to these, the anti-war left is virtually choking the streets with protest.

Some conservatives claim this is because conservatives generally don't demonstrate.  This one advises joining lefty demos for that reason: http://www.iraqwar.org/leftist.htm.

"Should Conservatives join leftist demonstartions against bombing?
[...]
"One of our readers asks this question. 
"Yes," because theirs is usually the only game in town. Leftists know best how to organize demonstrations and conservatives usually (except for Right to Life) neither organize them, nor participate in them.  Most Conservatives feel very uneasy sticking out against conventional wisdom. [...]"

This brings up a telling point.  AWARE was originally much more diverse politically, including Doug Rokke and other conservatives (who were clear that they opposed particular wars), who soon stopped coming, couldn't work with us or got involved in other things.  We can dwell on that individually, i suppose.

But it's not really true that conservatives or rightwingers don't organize.  In fact they are often very organized.  And they demonstrate.  I could bore you with my own college experience, but this is more entertaining:

One site http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=21384 lists the following activities, among others, for the "top ten campus conservative activists" of 2007:

1. Ryan orchestrated a “Coming Out Conservative Week,” featuring events that brought attention to illegal immigration and the failures of the Social Security system. At the end of the fall semester, Ryan, with the help of his conservative club, offered a satirical white scholarship and held a Christmas-Card-Making Party for the ACLU. In the spring, he and his club celebrated President’s Reagan birthday and showed the film Obsession, which highlights radical Islam. (Univ. of RI)

2. Lauren organized a group of UNH students to hold an “anti-anti-war rally” in support of the troops on Veterans Day. Lauren hosted two nationally known conservative speakers, Star Parker and Dinesh D’Souza. She hosted a “Conservative Coming Out Day” event, which drew more than 150 students, 58 protestors and ended in one liberal’s being arrested when he tried to disrupt the event. (Univ. of NH)

4. Nicholas helped defeat a leftist agenda to cancel the university’s contract with Coca-Cola due to alleged, and later dismissed, human rights violations. Nicholas was the driving force on the Free Speech Task Force, charged with creating a university-wide speech policy. Nicholas invited David Horowitz to speak on academic freedom and free speech before a standing-room-only crowd. (DePaul Univ)

6. Daniel led his club to participate in Young America’s “9/11: Never Forget Project” in which he brought the movie United 93 to the university, displayed 3,000 American flags around the student union and held a campus-wide ceremony and candlelight vigil.  (Bowling Green State Univ)

9. Mary participated in Young America’s Foundation’s “9/11: Never Forget Project.” Mary brought in speakers Dr. Mike Adams to discuss the issue of abortion and Col. John Reitzell to discuss the American military. She organized additional events throughout the year, including a campaign against the Vagina Monologues, a flier drive to highlight the atrocities allowed by Roe v. Wade and a 2nd Amendment Day at the shooting range. (Agnes Scott College)

10. To begin the year, Jeff took part in Young America’s Foundation’s “9/11: Never Forget Project,” since the university had nothing planned. Jeff and his club also focused on the threat of illegal immigration and invited Colorado Congressman Tom Tancredo (R.) to speak. Jeff stood his ground in the face of violent protests targeting the congressman’s visit and was invited to talk about those incidents on the Fox News Channel. (Michigan State)

No anti-war were mentioned, although that is in fact what I googled.  Presumably it was the "anti-anti-war" neologism that caught the search engine - and in fact I did get a lot more hits for "anti-anti-war" by googling "conservative" and "anti-war" together.

Just thought folks might be interested.
Ricky

"Speak your mind even if your voice shakes." - Maggie Kuhn

--- On Fri, 9/18/09, Stuart Levy <slevy at ncsa.uiuc.edu> wrote:

From: Stuart Levy <slevy at ncsa.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] ron paul on obama and the antiwar movement
To: "C. G. Estabrook" <galliher at illinois.edu>
Cc: "Ricky Baldwin" <baldwinricky at yahoo.com>, "'Peace-discuss'" <peace-discuss at anti-war.net>, "E. Wayne Johnson" <ewj at pigs.ag>, republican-637 at meetup.com, ronpaul-1884 at meetup.com, ronpaul-305 at meetup.com
Date: Friday, September 18, 2009, 11:45 AM

On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 11:29:56AM -0500, C. G. Estabrook wrote:
> "And where is the anti-war *right*?  Busy protesting health care reform or 
> immigrant reform, taxes, or something, I suppose."
>
> No, it's taking a principled (as opposed to just pragmatic) stand against 
> US crimes in the Middle East.

Where is it standing when it takes that stand?

It'll be interesting to see how much anti-war expression is to be found
at the Midwest Liberty Fest next month.

> See, e.g., the website <antiwar.com>, the journals American Conservative 
> and Chronicles, and the recent book by Bill Kauffman, "Ain't My America: 
> The Long, Noble History of Antiwar Conservatism and Middle-American 
> Anti-Imperialism."
>
> --CGE
>
>
> Ricky Baldwin wrote:
>> And where is the anti-war *right*?  Busy protesting health care reform or 
>> immigrant reform, taxes, or something, I suppose.  We might also say the 
>> left, and millions of people of various stripes, are caught up in issues 
>> related to recession or depression, possibly losing their own jobs or 
>> homes, or with health care, etc.
>>  It's good that Paul is still speaking up against US wars, wherever they 
>> are and whoever is ordering them, despite his questionable politics in 
>> other areas.  And it is true that Obama's presidency took a big bite out 
>> of the anti-war movement.  It's not the only thing.  It also depends on 
>> how you measure opposition.
>>  As I've said before, the (recent) anti-war movement was probably at its 
>> biggest, measured by turnout, in the weeks before and immediately after 
>> the (most recent) invasion of Iraq.  That summer we lost most of our 
>> activists and they never came back.
>>  Much of that opposition was closely related to opposition to Bush 
>> himself, in a similar way that much of the current noise over Obama's 
>> various plans is closely related to a dislike of the man himself.  There 
>> was also a naive belief among many at the time that the invasion might not 
>> happen if we just protested enough.  Most were never in for the long haul.
>>  A second wave of resolutions passed by cities, churches, labor unions and 
>> other groups, and the referendum votes in various communities like ours 
>> rejecting the war all came after that.
>>  Public opinion since then has only tipped further against the war in 
>> Iraq, and now has tipped more against the war in Afghanistan.  And 
>> anti-war efforts continue and not only among the hardcore faithful few 
>> anti-war purists (as they themselves might have us believe), e.g. the 
>> AFL-CIO this past weekend passed resolutions calling (again) for 
>> withdrawal of all troops and contractors from Iraq.
>>  But there's quite a bit more going on, of course: this past March several 
>> cities around the country held protests against the continued occupation 
>> of Iraq, Afghanistan and Palestine; on May 1 of this year 25,000 unionized 
>> longshoremen executed a one-day work stoppage in protest of US wars in 
>> Iraq and Afghanistan; US Labor Against the War has been building ties with 
>> Iraqi unions, pointing out that US presence in Iraq is actually growing, 
>> organizing anti-war unionists; even the New York Times, a leading 
>> proponent of the "Obama Effect," is reporting on the "American anti-war 
>> movement" to gear up this fall; and communities here in Illinois - 
>> Evanston, Oak Park, CHAMPAIGN-URBANA - continue demonstrating against war, 
>> holding peace vigils, etc.
>>  In fact there are two here next Monday, I believe, Sept. 21: a daytime 
>> protest on the Quad at noon, and an evening vigil at the Alma Mater at 
>> 8pm. And of course we have our monthly protests and presence at other 
>> events.  I believe anti-war groups including AWARE sorely need new 
>> activities too focus on, rather than just telling each other how their 
>> movement is flopping, is being fooled or coopted, or is otherwise 
>> unworthy.  And my opinion is that it ought to be calculated to draw in new 
>> blood and expand into new venues, preferably focused on some specific goal 
>> - like the campaign we built around the referendum votes, for example, but 
>> something that hasn't already be done.
>>  My 2c.
>> Ricky
>> "Speak your mind even if your voice shakes." - Maggie Kuhn
>> --- On *Fri, 9/18/09, E. Wayne Johnson /<ewj at pigs.ag>/* wrote:
>>     From: E. Wayne Johnson <ewj at pigs.ag>
>>     Subject: [Peace-discuss] ron paul on obama and the antiwar movement
>>     To: "'Peace-discuss'" <peace-discuss at anti-war.net>,
>>     ronpaul-305 at meetup.com, ronpaul-1884 at meetup.com,
>>     republican-637 at meetup.com
>>     Date: Friday, September 18, 2009, 5:44 AM
>>     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYNvjFYTmMM
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