[Peace-discuss] ron paul on obama and the antiwar movement

Fri Sep 18 17:00:45 CDT 2009

	Some discussion on this matter tonight on
	"News from Neptune" on Urbana Public TV,
	cable channel 6 at 7pm.  --CGE


Ricky Baldwin wrote:
> It's an excellent question, Stuart, and a good point, too.
> 
> I do actually pass by antiwar.com from time to time.  Good points often 
> there.  News well-done, etc. But that's all what they're SAYING.  What are
> they DOING?  I can't tell from the site.  In fact, I can't tell from ANY site
> what the invisible hordes of anti-war conservatives are doing at the behest
> of these writers.  Compared to these, the anti-war left is virtually choking
> the streets with protest.
> 
> Some conservatives claim this is because conservatives generally don't 
> demonstrate.  This one advises joining lefty demos for that reason: 
> http://www.iraqwar.org/leftist.htm.
> 
> "Should Conservatives join leftist demonstartions against bombing? [...] "One
> of our readers asks this question. "Yes," because theirs is usually the only
> game in town. Leftists know best how to organize demonstrations and
> conservatives usually (except for Right to Life) neither organize them, nor
> participate in them.  Most Conservatives feel very uneasy sticking out
> against conventional wisdom. [...]"
> 
> This brings up a telling point.  AWARE was originally much more diverse 
> politically, including Doug Rokke and other conservatives (who were clear
> that they opposed particular wars), who soon stopped coming, couldn't work
> with us or got involved in other things.  We can dwell on that individually,
> i suppose.
> 
> But it's not really true that conservatives or rightwingers don't organize.
> In fact they are often very organized.  And they demonstrate.  I could bore
> you with my own college experience, but this is more entertaining:
> 
> One site http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=21384 lists the following
> activities, among others, for the "top ten campus conservative activists" of
> 2007:
> 
> 1. Ryan orchestrated a “Coming Out Conservative Week,” featuring events that
> brought attention to illegal immigration and the failures of the Social
> Security system. At the end of the fall semester, Ryan, with the help of his
> conservative club, offered a satirical white scholarship and held a
> Christmas-Card-Making Party for the ACLU. In the spring, he and his club
> celebrated President’s Reagan birthday and showed the film Obsession, which
> highlights radical Islam. (Univ. of RI) 2. Lauren organized a group of UNH
> students to hold an “anti-anti-war rally” in support of the troops on
> Veterans Day. Lauren hosted two nationally known conservative speakers, Star
> Parker and Dinesh D’Souza. She hosted a “Conservative Coming Out Day” event,
> which drew more than 150 students, 58 protestors and ended in one liberal’s
> being arrested when he tried to disrupt the event. (Univ. of NH) 4. Nicholas
> helped defeat a leftist agenda to cancel the university’s contract with
> Coca-Cola due to alleged, and later dismissed, human rights violations.
> Nicholas was the driving force on the Free Speech Task Force, charged with
> creating a university-wide speech policy. Nicholas invited David Horowitz to
> speak on academic freedom and free speech before a standing-room-only crowd.
> (DePaul Univ)
> 
> 6. Daniel led his club to participate in Young America’s “9/11: Never Forget
> Project” in which he brought the movie United 93 to the university, displayed
> 3,000 American flags around the student union and held a campus-wide ceremony
> and candlelight vigil.  (Bowling Green State Univ)
> 
> 9. Mary participated in Young America’s Foundation’s “9/11: Never Forget 
> Project.” Mary brought in speakers Dr. Mike Adams to discuss the issue of
> abortion and Col. John Reitzell to discuss the American military. She 
> organized additional events throughout the year, including a campaign against
> the Vagina Monologues, a flier drive to highlight the atrocities allowed by
> Roe v. Wade and a 2nd Amendment Day at the shooting range. (Agnes Scott
> College)
> 
> 10. To begin the year, Jeff took part in Young America’s Foundation’s “9/11:
> Never Forget Project,” since the university had nothing planned. Jeff and his
> club also focused on the threat of illegal immigration and invited Colorado
> Congressman Tom Tancredo (R.) to speak. Jeff stood his ground in the face of
> violent protests targeting the congressman’s visit and was invited to talk
> about those incidents on the Fox News Channel. (Michigan State)
> 
> No anti-war were mentioned, although that is in fact what I googled. 
> Presumably it was the "anti-anti-war" neologism that caught the search engine
> - and in fact I did get a lot more hits for "anti-anti-war" by googling
> "conservative" and "anti-war" together.
> 
> Just thought folks might be interested. Ricky
> 
> "Speak your mind even if your voice shakes." - Maggie Kuhn
> 
> --- On *Fri, 9/18/09, Stuart Levy /<slevy at ncsa.uiuc.edu>/* wrote:
> 
> 
> From: Stuart Levy <slevy at ncsa.uiuc.edu> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] ron paul
> on obama and the antiwar movement To: "C. G. Estabrook"
> <galliher at illinois.edu> Cc: "Ricky Baldwin" <baldwinricky at yahoo.com>,
> "'Peace-discuss'" <peace-discuss at anti-war.net>, "E. Wayne Johnson"
> <ewj at pigs.ag>, republican-637 at meetup.com, ronpaul-1884 at meetup.com, 
> ronpaul-305 at meetup.com Date: Friday, September 18, 2009, 11:45 AM
> 
> On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 11:29:56AM -0500, C. G. Estabrook wrote:
>> "And where is the anti-war *right*?  Busy protesting health care
> reform or
>> immigrant reform, taxes, or something, I suppose."
>> 
>> No, it's taking a principled (as opposed to just pragmatic) stand
> against
>> US crimes in the Middle East.
> 
> Where is it standing when it takes that stand?
> 
> It'll be interesting to see how much anti-war expression is to be found at
> the Midwest Liberty Fest next month.
> 
> 
>> See, e.g., the website <antiwar.com>, the journals American
> Conservative
>> and Chronicles, and the recent book by Bill Kauffman, "Ain't My
> America:
>> The Long, Noble History of Antiwar Conservatism and Middle-American 
>> Anti-Imperialism."
>> 
>> --CGE
>> 
>> 
>> Ricky Baldwin wrote:
>>> And where is the anti-war *right*?  Busy protesting health care
> reform or
>>> immigrant reform, taxes, or something, I suppose.  We might also
> say the
>>> left, and millions of people of various stripes, are caught up
> in issues
>>> related to recession or depression, possibly losing their own
> jobs or
>>> homes, or with health care, etc. It's good that Paul is still speaking up
>>> against US wars,
> wherever they
>>> are and whoever is ordering them, despite his questionable
> politics in
>>> other areas.  And it is true that Obama's presidency took a big
> bite out
>>> of the anti-war movement.  It's not the only thing.  It also
> depends on
>>> how you measure opposition. As I've said before, the (recent) anti-war
>>> movement was
> probably at its
>>> biggest, measured by turnout, in the weeks before and
> immediately after
>>> the (most recent) invasion of Iraq.  That summer we lost most of
> our
>>> activists and they never came back. Much of that opposition was closely
>>> related to opposition to Bush himself, in a similar way that much of the
>>> current noise over
> Obama's
>>> various plans is closely related to a dislike of the man
> himself.  There
>>> was also a naive belief among many at the time that the invasion
> might not
>>> happen if we just protested enough.  Most were never in for the
> long haul.
>>> A second wave of resolutions passed by cities, churches, labor
> unions and
>>> other groups, and the referendum votes in various communities
> like ours
>>> rejecting the war all came after that. Public opinion since then has only
>>> tipped further against the
> war in
>>> Iraq, and now has tipped more against the war in Afghanistan.  And 
>>> anti-war efforts continue and not only among the hardcore
> faithful few
>>> anti-war purists (as they themselves might have us believe),
> e.g. the
>>> AFL-CIO this past weekend passed resolutions calling (again) for 
>>> withdrawal of all troops and contractors from Iraq. But there's quite a
>>> bit more going on, of course: this past
> March several
>>> cities around the country held protests against the continued
> occupation
>>> of Iraq, Afghanistan and Palestine; on May 1 of this year 25,000
> unionized
>>> longshoremen executed a one-day work stoppage in protest of US
> wars in
>>> Iraq and Afghanistan; US Labor Against the War has been building
> ties with
>>> Iraqi unions, pointing out that US presence in Iraq is actually
> growing,
>>> organizing anti-war unionists; even the New York Times, a leading 
>>> proponent of the "Obama Effect," is reporting on the "American
> anti-war
>>> movement" to gear up this fall; and communities here in Illinois - 
>>> Evanston, Oak Park, CHAMPAIGN-URBANA - continue demonstrating
> against war,
>>> holding peace vigils, etc. In fact there are two here next Monday, I
>>> believe, Sept. 21: a
> daytime
>>> protest on the Quad at noon, and an evening vigil at the Alma
> Mater at
>>> 8pm. And of course we have our monthly protests and presence at
> other
>>> events.  I believe anti-war groups including AWARE sorely need new 
>>> activities too focus on, rather than just telling each other how
> their
>>> movement is flopping, is being fooled or coopted, or is otherwise 
>>> unworthy.  And my opinion is that it ought to be calculated to
> draw in new
>>> blood and expand into new venues, preferably focused on some
> specific goal
>>> - like the campaign we built around the referendum votes, for
> example, but
>>> something that hasn't already be done. My 2c. Ricky "Speak your mind even
>>> if your voice shakes." - Maggie Kuhn --- On *Fri, 9/18/09, E. Wayne
>>> Johnson /<ewj at pigs.ag
> <http://us.mc1126.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ewj@pigs.ag>>/* wrote:
>>> From: E. Wayne Johnson <ewj at pigs.ag
> <http://us.mc1126.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ewj@pigs.ag>>
>>> Subject: [Peace-discuss] ron paul on obama and the antiwar
> movement
>>> To: "'Peace-discuss'" <peace-discuss at anti-war.net
> <http://us.mc1126.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=peace-discuss@anti-war.net>>,
>>> ronpaul-305 at meetup.com
> <http://us.mc1126.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ronpaul-305@meetup.com>, 
> ronpaul-1884 at meetup.com 
> <http://us.mc1126.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ronpaul-1884@meetup.com>,
>>> republican-637 at meetup.com
> <http://us.mc1126.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=republican-637@meetup.com>
>>> Date: Friday, September 18, 2009, 5:44 AM 
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYNvjFYTmMM 
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