[Peace-discuss] Fw: The myth of 60

Fri Sep 18 20:59:22 CDT 2009

I am more than not convinced by it; I doubt if even that possibility will
take place since as a budget reconciliation bill it would have required the
passage of a concurrent resolution, which may be open to filibuster itself.
Moreover, since the use of such an extraordinary exceptional method might be
seen by some  members who would otherwise support the healthcare bill, as
violating The "Byrd Rule" (2 U.S.C.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_2_of_the_United_States_Code>  §
<http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/2/644.html>  644) or the intent of budget
reconciliation process, there is a realistic possibility that they would not
support such a resolution, which would possibly put the Democratic majority
at less than 51 Senators even with the VP’s vote.  Senator Byrd, the last
time around, objected to the use of this method under Clinton with respect
to healthcare bills suggesting it was to far afield from the substance of
budget reconciliation matters.

Accoding to Wikipedia, “The Byrd Rule defines a provision to be extraneous
in six cases:

*	(1) if it does not produce a change in outlays or revenues; 
*	(2) if it produces an outlay increase or revenue decrease when the
instructed committee is not in compliance with its instructions; 
*	(3) if it is outside the jurisdiction of the committee that
submitted the title or provision for inclusion in the reconciliation
measure; 
*	(4) if it produces a change in outlays or revenues which is merely
incidental to the non-budgetary components of the provision; 
*	(5) if it would increase the deficit for a fiscal year beyond those
covered by the reconciliation measure, though the provisions in question may
receive an exception if they in total in a Title of the measure net to a
reduction in the deficit; and 
*	(6) if it recommends changes in Social Security. 

If a provision violates the Byrd Rule, then any Senator may raise a
procedural objection and unless 60 Senators vote to waive the objection,
then the offending provision will be stripped from the bill.”

Since what is or is not a violation is open to interpretation, an objection
can be raised and the rule invoked, which would call for a ruling by Chair,
if not a vote by the members o the Senate, on if  objection is valid;
moreover, if the rule is deemed applicable, then we are back to needing 60
Senators to vote to waive the procedural  objection raised by any Senator
with respect to given provisions of the bill alleged to be an offending
provision.  It would be possible that major provisions might not receive the
60 votes and would be left out of the reconciliation bill.

From: John W. [mailto:jbw292002 at gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 5:21 PM
To: LAURIE SOLOMON
Cc: Jenifer Cartwright; Peace-discuss
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Fw: The myth of 60

On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 4:46 PM, LAURIE SOLOMON <LAURIE at advancenet.net>
wrote:

The problem with the key assertion here is that, while the Senate only needs
51 votes to pass the bill, it does need 60 plus to prevent the opponents
from filibustering the bill to death.  Thus, realistically you do need 60
votes to make change happen. 

Either you didn't read the thing you're responding to, Laurie, or else
you're not convinced by it.  Here's what it says, below:

"While Senate rules allow a procedural tactic known as the filibuster to
block most bills without the support of 60 senators, there are exceptions --
because Senate rules also ban the use of a filibuster to block budget
reconciliation bills. That means, if the Senate can't pass healthcare reform
including the choice of a public option with 60 votes, they can still pass
it in the budget bill this year by majority vote."

Morover, all the petitions in the world will not produce the votes necessary
to get a reasonable bill that grants any sort of guarantee of good
“healthcare for all” legislation from getting past the minority who will
block it with filibusters and institutes a detailed set of reasonable and
enforceable controls over the insurance industry and its work-a-day
practices.  One only needs to look at the states where the insurance
commissioners who are suppose to regulate the industry in their states have
been captured by the very same industry and do not have the authority in
most instances to demand proprietary documents or carry out in-depth
investigations of individual cases under current privacy laws even when the
client grants permission to them to examine their records.

I agree that we won't end up with a health care 'reform' bill that's worth a
damn, due to the incestuous, criminal relationship between corporate America
and our politicians.  But a bill could be passed with fewer than 60 votes,
as explained above and below.

John Wason

From: peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net
[mailto:peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net] On Behalf Of Jenifer
Cartwright
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 2:43 PM
To: Peace-discuss
Subject: [Peace-discuss] Fw: The myth of 60

--- On Fri, 9/18/09, Jim Dean, Democracy for America
<info at democracyforamerica.com> wrote:

From: Jim Dean, Democracy for America <info at democracyforamerica.com>
Subject: The myth of 60
To: jencart13 at yahoo.com
Date: Friday, September 18, 2009, 12:31 PM

Jenifer -

 <http://dfa2.convio.net/site/R?i=T9ztJAiMQ2EYqeNCZmSfTw..> Error! Filename
not specified.

Yesterday, Governor Dean laid out the strategy for passing the choice of a
public option this year and contrary to the conventional wisdom in
Washington D.C. and the media, the Senate doesn't need 60 votes to make
change happen.

The Senate only needs 50 senators and Vice-President Biden to pass -- by
majority vote -- healthcare reform including a public option in a budget
bill this year. Thanks to you, we have 50 senators on record ready to vote
for real reform.

The budget process can start as soon as October 15. We need to hit the
critical mass of at least 250,000 signers by then to make sure our call to
action has an impact on every member of Congress nationwide. We're already
off to a great start with over 10% of our goal in just 24 hours. If we work
together, I think we can double it and gather 50,000 signatures by Monday.

As the President said in his speech to Congress last week, this is the
season for action. The majority of Americans want the choice of a public
option and majority votes in Congress will pass it. Join me in calling on
Congress to get the job done this year.

ADD YOUR NAME RIGHT NOW
<http://dfa2.convio.net/site/R?i=OySosTCo69La6io9zB44cw..> 

The myth of 60 is pushed by those who want to kill reform.

But the foundation of American democracy is based on majority votes and the
United States Congress is no exception. While Senate rules allow a
procedural tactic known as the filibuster to block most bills without the
support of 60 senators, there are exceptions -- because Senate rules also
ban the use of a filibuster to block budget reconciliation bills. That
means, if the Senate can't pass healthcare reform including the choice of a
public option with 60 votes, they can still pass it in the budget bill this
year by majority vote.

As I mentioned above, your hard work has identified a majority of Congress
in both chambers -- at least 218 House Democrats and 50 Senators -- who will
vote for the final healthcare bill if it includes the choice of a public
option rather than vote against the bill and kill reform. So Congress has
the majority votes needed to pass a public option. 

The question is do they have the political will to fight back against
right-wing fear mongering and misinformation to deliver real reform?

It's up to us to demand action. Let's work hard to get 50,000 signers by
Monday.

ADD YOUR NAME -- THEN PASS IT ON
<http://dfa2.convio.net/site/R?i=INolzL_CC8KCIJTeUcK0bQ..> 

We're winning because you know it takes action to succeed. You don't sit
back and hope for change, you deliver results and get the job done. That's
why we're going to win.

I know I can count on you to deliver. Thank you for everything you do,

-Jim

Jim Dean, Chair
Democracy for AmericaError! Filename not specified. 

Democracy for America relies on you and the people-power of more than one
million members to fund the grassroots organizing and training that delivers
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