[Peace-discuss] Fwd: [HumanRights] In Vienna: Hitler and Hertzl vs Mozart, Popper, and Freud

[David Green]

Hi Mort,

Actually, it was a lame effort at psychoanalytic humor, about which Freud would 
certainly question my motives.

But the British academic Jacqueline Rose has written a serious book about 
Zionism and the collective Jewish unconscious, The Question of Zion:

"This study therefore asks of the reader to do what may well seem impossible. To 
suspend both belief and disbelief. To try to enter the imaginative mind-set of 
Zionism in order to understand why it commands such passionate and seemingly 
intractable allegiance. I am convinced that a simple dismissal of Zionism 
fatally undermines the case it is intended to promote. On three grounds. First 
political. As Lenin once said, you must always construe your enemy at their 
strongest point. Otherwise your refusal or blindness will expose you to the 
enemy's unacknowledged strengths. Second, psychoanalytic. Insult an identity and 
you will drive it in deeper (for the same reason, you will not have any effect 
on Zionism by simply accusing it of being based on a set of myths). Finally, 
historical. Such a dismissal leaves us in complete ignorance as to what Zionism 
is, or was. "To paraphrase Marc Bloch to the historians of the French 
Revolution," Bensoussan concludes his opening paragraph, "we would like to say 
to the present-day protagonists: 'Zionists, anti-Zionists, for pity's sake tell 
us what Zionism was!' ""
 
http://press.princeton.edu/chapters/s7927.html




________________________________
From: Brussel <brussel at illinois.edu>
To: David Green <davegreen84 at yahoo.com>
Cc: Peace Discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
Sent: Mon, July 5, 2010 6:09:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: [HumanRights] In Vienna: Hitler and Hertzl vs 
Mozart, Popper, and Freud

I guess I found it interesting, if not surprising, that Freud, living in Vienna 
where anti-semitism of a virulent kind probably existed, foresaw that the 
Zionist project of Hertzl would lead to the persecution of others. Einstein 
probably had similar understanding. And I found it notable that Qumsiyeh 
discovered this quotation. Did you know about it? 


But why do you ask?

Glad to be back, in some ways. 

Mort


On Jul 5, 2010, at 5:47 PM, David Green wrote:

"Which I found interesting."
>
>Yes, but do you really know why you found it interesting?
>
>Welcome back.
>
>DG
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________
From: Morton K. Brussel <brussel at illinois.edu>
>To: Peace-discuss List <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>Sent: Mon, July 5, 2010 11:41:48 AM
>Subject: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: [HumanRights] In Vienna: Hitler and Hertzl vs 
>Mozart, Popper, and Freud
>
>Qumsiyeh was visiting Vienna, representing, as usual, the Palestinian cause,
>and wrote:
>
>> …But back to Hertzl who contributed to 110 years of conflict and suffering
>> for millions of people.  Hertzl wrote in his diaries that “Anti-Semites will
>> become our surest friends, anti-Semitic countries our allies.” Instead of
>> working to better life for all people, he chose to mimic ethnocentric
>> chauvinistic nationalism in Europe and export it to another land whose
>> people had nothing to do with what was happening in Europe.  Another famous
>> Austrian Jew, father of psychoanalysis Sigmund Freud, rejected Zionism
>> because it has within it the same seeds of human frailty that he could
>> easily comprehend.  To wit, Freud wrote once to a Zionist who tried to
>> recruit him:
>> 
>> *“I cannot do as you wish. I am unable to overcome my aversion to burdening
>> the public with my name, and even the present critical time does not seem to
>> me to warrant it. Whoever wants to influence the masses must give them
>> something rousing and inflammatory and my sober judgment of Zionism does not
>> permit this. I certainly sympathize with its goals, am proud of our
>> University in Jerusalem and am delighted with our settlement’s prosperity.
>> But, on the other hand, I do not think that Palestine could ever become a
>> Jewish state, nor that the Christian and Islamic worlds would ever be
>> prepared to have their holy places under Jewish care. It would have seemed
>> more sensible to me to establish a Jewish homeland on a less
>> historically-burdened land. But I know that such a rational viewpoint would
>> never have gained the enthusiasm of the masses and the financial support of
>> the wealthy. I concede with sorrow that the baseless fanaticism of our
>> people is in part to be blamed for the awakening of Arab distrust. I can
>> raise no sympathy at all for the misdirected piety which transforms a piece
>> of a Herodian wall into a national relic, thereby offending the feelings of
>> the natives. Now judge for yourself whether I, with such a critical point of
>> view, am the right person to come forward as the solace of a people deluded
>> by unjustified hope.”*
>
>Which I found interesting. 
>
>--mkb
>
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