[Peace-discuss] How to win in November: jobs & income

[John W.]

On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 9:27 PM, C. G. Estabrook <galliher at illinois.edu>wrote:



> "...beyond the scope of this post"?! Come on, John. When did you think
> anything to be beyond the scope of your posts?
>

*smile*



> You're right that Americans are much more concerned about jobs than about
> the deficit - in spite of all that Republicans and Democrats and the entire
> MSM can do to get them worried about the chimerical deficit - but Americans
> doubt (correctly) that the war is producing many jobs. Our mercenary army,
> of course, and some arms manufacturing jobs - but they'd be there anyway.
> (Israel e.g. needs weapons.)  Americans' first reaction to an announcement
> that the US is withdrawing its troops from the Mideast would not be, "Oh,
> no, there go our jobs!"
>
No, probably not.  But I don't think the deficit (or the cumulative national
debt) is in any way "chimerical"  I think it's very real, and the interest
on it alone saps something like a third of all the income taxes we Americans
pay.  We owe real money to real lenders; or else the Fed is simply printing
money, which devalues the currency and creates inflation.  Either way or
both ways, there's nothing chimerical about it.



> In fact a withdrawal of US expeditionary forces abroad would produce a
> clamor for "building up our defenses" - and probably scotch any attempt
> (like the Barney Frank-Ron Paul proposal) to reduce the military.
>
Probably.  Because we (collectively) still believe in the "terrorist"
bogeyman, and have absolutely no concept of how American foreign policy
creates and sustains what terrorists there are around the world.



> How about spending the money going to war actually to hire people (maybe
> even to do useful work, like building mass transit)?  The $33.5 billion
> "supplemental" war budget the House just passed would pay a lot of wages and
> salaries - more than it's doing through the profit-heavy "defense"
> industries.
>
Well, of course I agree with you here.  But apparently a majority of
Americans don't....or at least our "leaders" don't.



> We need a movement (in any political party) that demands the federal
> government provide a living-wage job to anyone who wants one.


Though I think your suggestion here is overly simplistic, it would be
lovely.




> On 7/14/10 9:02 PM, John W. wrote:
>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 8:36 PM, C. G. Estabrook <galliher at illinois.edu
>>  <mailto:galliher at illinois.edu>> wrote:
>>
>> [And no one believes any more that the Democrats will provide that. People
>> are beginning to notice that the war is making us poor. --CGE]
>>
>> I think not, Carl.  The reality is that war generally creates jobs but
>> adds
>> to the deficit.  America's loss of jobs over the past 30 years is due, not
>> to
>> war, but to other factors beyond the scope of this post.  Since according
>> to
>> the poll Americans are much more concerned about jobs than about the
>> deficit,
>> this would support the very opposite of your tortured reasoning.
>>
>> Americans Really Care About Jobs; Deficit, Not so Much By: Jon Walker
>> Wednesday July 14, 2010 8:01 am
>>
>> While collective deficit hysteria fully grips Washington, what the
>> American
>> people really care about is jobs and the economy. According to a new CBS
>> News
>> poll, 38 percent of Americans think the most important problem facing our
>> country is the economy and jobs. Second is the wars in Iraq and
>> Afghanistan
>> at seven percent. Health care comes in third at about six percent, and all
>> the way back in fourth place, with a mere five percent, is the budget
>> deficit
>> and national debt.
>>
>> I have said it before, but since members of Congress are descending into
>> highly destructive deficit insanity, it needs to be said again. The
>> American
>> people don’t really care about the deficit. They consider it to be an
>> issue
>> that should eventually get addressed but is a low priority right now. As
>> common sense would dictate, with almost 10 percent official unemployment
>> and
>> a serious problem of long-term unemployment, what the American people care
>> about is jobs.
>>
>> When the poll specifically asked people for the most important economic
>> problem facing the country, the top response, again at 38 percent, was
>> jobs
>> and unemployment. That number is even slightly higher when you consider
>> that
>> three percent chose the issue of jobs going overseas. The collective topic
>> of
>> budget, national debt and government spending was the top priority for
>> only
>> 10 percent of the country.
>>
>> For Washington politicians to obsess about the deficit at the expense of
>> job
>> creation and protection is clearly not what most Americans want their
>> leaders
>> to do. Doing the opposite of what the voters want is an even worse
>> political
>> move, considering that increasing average real disposable income is a
>> significant predictor of how well the incumbent party will do in the next
>> election. So, refusing to extend unemployment insurance, continue COBRA
>> subsidies and provide aid to local governments to prevent massive teacher
>> layoffs right before an election is a bad move for the party in power. It
>> is
>> even worse because the main excuse given for the focus on the deficit,
>> bond
>> vigilantes, is nothing more than a Washington, DC fever dream with no
>> basis
>> in reality. The cost of American borrowing is still much lower than even a
>> few years ago.
>>
>> So, this deficit hysteria is not only misguided policy and morally cruel
>> but
>> also extremely bad politics. The pollsters and political advisers who have
>> convinced Democrats to focus on the issue at the expense of aiding regular
>> Americans are either secretly trying to destroy the party or are
>> incompetent.
>> Either way, they should have been fired yesterday.
>>
>>
>> http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2010/07/14/americans-really-care-about-jobs-deficit-not-so-much/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+CampaignSilo+%28Jane+Hamsher+Campaign+Silo%29&utm_content=Twitter
>>
>
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