[Peace-discuss] [Peace] Partial victory against SB1070. Protest is still on!

Fri Jul 30 20:20:45 CDT 2010

" The good people of the US dont want to do the jobs that
they do, or used to do.  The Mexicans pick your fruit and vegetables, feed
your livestock and slaughter and package them for you and clean your toilets
afterwards. "

Wayne,

The above is a myth created and perpetuated by the corporate media.

The reality is, that Americans will not work for the low wages that agri- 
business corporations want to pay workers !

NAFTA and the other corporate trade treaties are all about the cheapest 
possible Labor and the greatest corporate profits and POWER !
Even when it means bribing government officials in Mexico and elsewhere to 
use police and milittary repression against workers who try to organize for 
a living wage and decent working conditions. That means Union members are 
targeted for ; fines, jailings, beatings, rape, and even MURDER !

NAFTA has devastated Mexican ; workers, small farmers, small and medium 
sized businesses. Resulting in Mexicans being pushed off their lands, out of 
their jobs, and out of business, which has caused a mass exodus to the U.S., 
which the corporate interests ; encourage, exploit, and profit from.
Corporations recruit workers in Mexico to come to the U.S., and then have 
them in an exploitable situation once they arrive and take a job. These 
workers have no rights under Labor Law, are paid well below the legal 
minimum wage, and are threatened with the employer firing them or calling 
immigration / ICE if they complain.
These desperate Mexican workers in effect lower wage and working conditions 
for ALL workers in the U.S., and sometimes are used as strike breakers ( 
SCABS ) during Labor disputes / Strikes.

I am NOT blaming the victim ( as Lou Dobbs so cleverly has done ) but merely 
stating the current realities.
U.S. corporations are the real villians here, along with their NAFTA treaty 
and their bought and paid for poitical corporate whores like Bill Clinton et 
al., who should be in my opinion prosecuted for treason to the American 
people.

Those of you who think that this only effects " blue collar " workers, think 
again !
The HB-1 Visa program has been equally devastating in the U.S. to 
professions such as : Electrical Engineers, Software Designers, and even 
Academics. NO Worker is safe, rather you want to admit that you are a worker 
or not !

Make no mistake, I am NOT against preople from ; Mexico, Pakistan, Eastern 
Europe, etc., immigating to the U.S. and working, What I oppose is when 
these workers are imported to undermine wage and Labor standards for ALL of 
us living here in the U.S. or anywhere in the world for that matter, for the 
benefit of corporate greed.
These workers should be paid NO LESS than the going rate of a particular 
occupation that Americans work at and have the same legal protections and 
other benefits.

So PLEASE, don't help the corporate interests perpetuate the current 
problems we face by stating the propoganda lie myth that " immigrants do the 
jobs that Americans don't want to do ".

David J.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "E.Wayne Johnson" <ewj at pigs.ag>
To: "Ron Szoke" <r-szoke at illinois.edu>; "Karen Medina" 
<kmedina67 at gmail.com>; "Peace-discuss List" 
<Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 8:17 AM
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Partial victory against SB1070. Protest 
is still on!

>I see the border as a semi-permeable membrane with gates and pumps.  Some 
>things are pumped in
> some are pumped out and some passively flow in and out.  Some things 
> diffuse across the membrane.
>
> If there is no border, there is no State indeed.  I can't say that I 
> dislike the idea of No State and No Borders but I recognize that the 
> integrity and existence of the State is defined by its border.  I mean 
> State here in the general sense, not the 50 states, etc.
>
> The extreme Libertarian position is for no borders at all.  Extremes are 
> usually dysfunctional.
>
> Some borders and separations are natural due to various geophysical 
> properties and the property of distance and the "homing" tendency.  People 
> tend to naturally segregate (not in the racist sense) and develop their 
> individual cultures.  My wife's hometown used to have a wall around it to 
> keep bandits and roaming marauders out.  Consequently Qixian developed 
> their own language that is quite different from the neighboring two county 
> seats Taigu and Pingyao.  The wall at Pingyao is still standing since the 
> merchants of Pingyao had money enough and motivation enough for a wall 
> that would stand for centuries.  They got their training in xenophobia at 
> the college of hard knocks.
>
> The good people of Arizona have their own reasons for keeping out the 
> Mexican riff-raff.  Likewise our Mexican brothers and sisters have their 
> impetus for wanting to migrate northward in search of what they hope would 
> be a better life.  My sympathies are with them.  I dont think that the 
> majority of them are bandits and small thieves in search of something for 
> nothing.  Some of them are.  Has to be so.  Such exist on both sides of 
> the border.   Most of the Mexicans who come to the US are good people. 
> The fine Mexican guy who replaced my fried automatic transmission in Elko 
> Nevada asked me where I was from and then asked me "what part of Mexico is 
> that?".
>
> "Born in East LA" is one of my favourite movies.  Lao Zi said that if you 
> dont value things that are hard to get, then you bring it about that 
> people do not compete.
>
> However biased and rednecky stupid and xenophobic we might think Arizonans 
> to be, they have a right to their own culture and individuality and I do 
> regret that there are people who want to homogenize and dumb down the 
> concept of the 50 or so sovereign states, however artificial and contrived 
> one might find their ILL-drawn borders to be.
>
> If Arizonans want to be assholes, we should respect it somewhat.  It is 
> the differences that are interesting and blending the 50 states into a 
> homogeneous mass is entropic.  I was cheering for the Quebecois to secede 
> and it had nothing to do with whether or not I like Quebeckers.   In 
> southern Illinois we didnt want the "Chicago dumbasses who cannot 
> disttinguish Shinola from its colorimetric congener" telling us what to 
> do, and we shared a lot more in common with the people in southern Indiana 
> than those northerners who dont even know how to talk right.   For the 
> other 49 states to hammer the Arizonans is as least as hypocritical and 
> xenophobic as the gun toting blaspheming rednecks of Arizona.
>
> We make a big mistake when we try to impose our cultural memes on others. 
> If immigration is a good idea then give the Mexicans free train tickets 
> and safe passage through Arizona.  But dont tell the Arizonans how to run 
> their state, however damn stupid their policy seems to us.  Yankee 
> imperialism stinks no matter how you package it and the more you stir it 
> up the more it stinks.
>
> Mexicans come to the US because the equilibrium draws them in just like 
> salt into a pickle.   The good people of the US dont want to do the jobs 
> that they do, or used to do.  The Mexicans pick your fruit and vegetables, 
> feed your livestock and slaughter and package them for you and clean your 
> toilets afterwards.
>
> I am disappointed at how polarized the issue has become & I dont see any 
> meaningful dialogue going on between the different sides.  The federal 
> government wants to extend its tentacles into every aspect of American 
> life. Arizona has its own ideas.  I think that both sides are very very 
> wrong and this matter is bound to continue to smolder for a long while. 
> The best thing for the Yankees to do is to simply give their advice and 
> then mind their own business.  But if Yankees did that, they wouldn't be 
> Yankees would they?
>
> ...and we wouldnt have a gazillion and a half military bases around the 
> world either.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ron Szoke" <r-szoke at illinois.edu>
> To: "Karen Medina" <kmedina67 at gmail.com>; "Peace-discuss List" 
> <Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
> Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 12:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Partial victory against SB 1070. 
> Protest is still on!
>
>
>> The matter came before the judge because a lawsuit was filed against the
>> State.  The lawsuit may have been filed because of some public pressure,
>> but there is no indication that it was or needed to be "massive."
>>
>> Note that original issue has disappeared in the confusion, as usual:
>> whether the ruling was a direct causal result of "massive public 
>> pressure."
>>
>> -- Ron
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>
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