[Peace-discuss] [sf-core] Re: [Discuss] Fw: What hath got rot?

Tue Mar 23 23:43:17 CDT 2010

OMG!!  What the Hell?!!  How did this commentary on the Health Care bill get
side bared into a cornucopia of Socialist issues?  I simply can't wrap my
head around this----Bottom line---Carl and John and whomever else of like
minds, don't like the Health Care Bill---I get it.  Though I like you both,
---I seriously don't have time to wrap my head around all this
back'n'forth.  And just as an end note on the subject I thought we were
discussing---the only person I respect an opinion about the Health Care
issue is Claudia given she has devoted herself to changing Health Care
policies that affect real CHANGE we can see and feel--in Champaign County
and beyond.

On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 11:19 PM, Laurie Solomon <ls1000 at live.com> wrote:

> I have no qualms with this analysis except one:  I think your first
> paragraph is a cheap shot.   I can only assume that that is how you describe
> and consider anyone who says anything good about Obama and maybe about any
> chief magistrate including Nixon who you appear to praise.  In praising his
> actions - even if they were begrudging and against what he really  wanted,
> are not you also" identifying with the aggressor"?
>
> Having said that, I only want to note that, while you note correctly - I
> believe - that the Nixon Administration was more liberal than any other
> President or administration  that came after him or it and that the whole
> political spectrum has been shifting to the right more and more every year
> to the point that it is now very far to the right, you appear to not give
> much significance to the fact that the political environment during the
> Nixon period and even prior to it allowed the Nixon Administration to be as
> liberal as they were; but now the political environment has changed and no
> President or administration since then could be that liberal or progressive
> and get away with it - much less survive- in the period that came after
> Nixon.  Thus, holding this or any other administration that came after
> Nixon's up to the Nixon Administration might comprise a very unfair
> comparison historically and analytically.
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "C. G. ESTABROOK" <cge at shout.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 8:52 PM
> To: "Melodye Rosales" <melodye at nitrogendesign.com>
> Cc: "Ricky Baldwin" <baldwinricky at yahoo.com>; "Marti Wilkinson" <
> martiwilki at gmail.com>; "peace discuss" <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>;
> "socialist forum core" <sf-core at yahoogroups.com>; "C-U Citzens for Peace
> and Justice" <discuss at lists.communitycourtwatch.org>
> Subject: [sf-core] Re: [Peace-discuss] [Discuss] Fw:  What hath got rot?
>
>  It's hard to make sense of this statement, but it seems to be praise for
>> our
>> chief magistrate.  As such, it seems to be an example of what some
>> psychoanalysts call "identification with the aggressor."
>>
>> Sticking to political as opposed to psychological analysis, it's clear
>> that the
>> health "reform" enacted by the current administration is substantially to
>> the
>> right of that offered by the Nixon administration (and torpedoed by
>> Democrats).
>>  Here's what the Nixon administration was talking about a generation ago:
>> <
>> http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stories/2009/September/03/nixon-proposal.aspx
>> >.
>>
>> In terms of effect (as opposed to the personal commitments of leading
>> members)
>> the Nixon administration was clearly the most liberal administration since
>> WWII,
>> from the EPA to the negative income tax. It was driven to be so, against
>> its
>> will, by the accumulated political demands of "the sixties."  It took a
>> major
>> counterattack by capital, under the name "neoliberalism," beginning in the
>> Carter administration, to roll it back.
>>
>> Nixon in the early 1970s proposed to reform welfare by replacing it with a
>> guaranteed annual income; Clinton reformed it by abolishing AFDC. "Only
>> Nixon
>> could go to China"; only Clinton could destroy welfare.
>>
>> Today's Democratic Party, on economic policy and social welfare policy at
>> least,
>> is well to the right of the Republican Party during the days of Nixon and
>> Ford.
>> In fact the entire political spectrum in the US has shifted far to the
>> right,
>> such that the liberal/left would be ecstatic if even single-payer could
>> ever be
>> established here.
>>
>> That's the result of 30 years of reaction: we frogs think the water is
>> quite
>> temperate, thank you.  Try not to notice that real wages have not risen in
>> America in that time.
>>
>>
>> Melodye Rosales wrote:
>>
>>> Impossible to please everyone---Bush bankrupt us for 8 years
>>> straight---so we
>>> are trying to tackle an ambitious and financially expensive task----even
>>> if
>>> we are doing it one dime at a time!
>>>
>>> To echo those poor souls who were victims of the Stockholder's Bean
>>> Counter
>>> approach to the Health Care industry,
>>>
>>> /"CHANGE is never perfect. It's always gonna have its critics, Monday
>>> night
>>> quarterbacks, and when one thing doesn't go as planned---you're gonna
>>> have
>>> your share of "I told you so, you so'n'so"  But Thank the Lawd we have
>>> somebody willin' to take on Goliath! Somebody who is willing to try
>>> something
>>> different because they see the suffering getting worse--- not better.
>>>
>>> Thank the Lawd almighty that we might  get at least one good clasp on the
>>> monopoly that has been insulating the Health Care industry, keeping us
>>> from
>>> pull it apart ----just enough---- to open the possibility for fair trade
>>> and
>>> competition.  Then--just maybe---we will encourage enough David's to step
>>> forward, enabling them to gain access to the support needed to maintain
>>> and
>>> sustain alternative venues for citizens of the most powerful country in
>>> the
>>> world to have the medical means to finally live long enough to enjoy the
>>> fruits of their work in this Land of Plenty. GOD BLESS AMERICA and my
>>> President, Obama!!!" /
>>>
>>> So, my trillion dollar question, "Who, before President Obama, was able
>>> or
>>> willing to provide a plan to include the 'have nots'? And, though the
>>> Health
>>> Care Bill is not a perfect piece of legislation, give me one that is, one
>>> that has gone this far to include a mass of people regardless of age,
>>> gender,
>>> economics, religion, political party affiliation or ethnicity?  Who?"
>>>
>>> It never ceases to amaze me how some of the biggest critics (on every
>>> subject) coming out of the shadows have done---- what?
>>>
>>> I, for one, am so tired of the endless critics who cast blame and carry
>>> no
>>> sustainable solutions.
>>>
>>> Even locally, though I know most of you and believe you accomplish a
>>> tremendous amount of good and goodwill--------I am still waiting for the
>>> demonstrations and forums associated with, to stop being the end all
>>> answer
>>> to every inequitable problem and voter education and voter drives to
>>> become
>>> the new wave mantra, motivator, and means to exercise the voices of
>>> change to
>>> CHANGE the system into a more equitable playing field------right inside
>>> Champaign County. Not just during the voting season---but year 'round.
>>> Let's
>>> start here.  The place where we live. We need registered voters who
>>> actually
>>> vote. We need to get them to the polls.  That is where CHANGE truly
>>> begins
>>> and ends.
>>>
>>> -Melodye
>>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
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