[Peace-discuss] [Discuss] [sf-core] Re: Fw: What hath got rot?

[John W.]

On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 11:43 PM, Melodye Rosales <
melodye at nitrogendesign.com> wrote:



> OMG!!  What the Hell?!!  How did this commentary on the Health Care bill
> get side bared into a cornucopia of Socialist issues?  I simply can't wrap
> my head around this----Bottom line---Carl and John and whomever else of like
> minds, don't like the Health Care Bill---I get it.  Though I like you both,
> ---I seriously don't have time to wrap my head around all this
> back'n'forth.  And just as an end note on the subject I thought we were
> discussing---the only person I respect an opinion about the Health Care
> issue is Claudia given she has devoted herself to changing Health Care
> policies that affect real CHANGE we can see and feel--in Champaign County
> and beyond.



I think we can all agree that Champaign County Health Care Consumers is a
wonderful organization.  Claudia and her cohorts work tirelessly on our
behalf.  I have supported them financially to the extent I am able, and they
have helped me with several health care issues, including quite recently.
I'm sure others here can say the same.  In the total absence of a sane and
compassionate health care policy in the United States, we would be hard
pressed to survive without organizations such as CCHCC.  My criticism of the
new health care 'reform' legislation should in no case be construed as an
attack on CCHCC.

Having said that, all of us can't and shouldn't devote all of our energies
to health care issues.  CCHCC is our proxy, and a wonderful one.  Some of
us, by virtue of talent or temperament or perhaps simply chance, have worked
in other areas to better the community.  I'd like to think that we were
still entitled to an opinion on health care policies.

Well, enough said.   Sometimes e-mail threads go off in unpredictable
directions.

Respect,

John




>  On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 11:19 PM, Laurie Solomon <ls1000 at live.com> wrote:
>
>> I have no qualms with this analysis except one:  I think your first
>> paragraph is a cheap shot.   I can only assume that that is how you describe
>> and consider anyone who says anything good about Obama and maybe about any
>> chief magistrate including Nixon who you appear to praise.  In praising his
>> actions - even if they were begrudging and against what he really  wanted,
>> are not you also" identifying with the aggressor"?
>>
>> Having said that, I only want to note that, while you note correctly - I
>> believe - that the Nixon Administration was more liberal than any other
>> President or administration  that came after him or it and that the whole
>> political spectrum has been shifting to the right more and more every year
>> to the point that it is now very far to the right, you appear to not give
>> much significance to the fact that the political environment during the
>> Nixon period and even prior to it allowed the Nixon Administration to be as
>> liberal as they were; but now the political environment has changed and no
>> President or administration since then could be that liberal or progressive
>> and get away with it - much less survive- in the period that came after
>> Nixon.  Thus, holding this or any other administration that came after
>> Nixon's up to the Nixon Administration might comprise a very unfair
>> comparison historically and analytically.
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "C. G. ESTABROOK" <cge at shout.net>
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 8:52 PM
>> To: "Melodye Rosales" <melodye at nitrogendesign.com>
>> Cc: "Ricky Baldwin" <baldwinricky at yahoo.com>; "Marti Wilkinson" <
>> martiwilki at gmail.com>; "peace discuss" <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>;
>> "socialist forum core" <sf-core at yahoogroups.com>; "C-U Citzens for Peace
>> and Justice" <discuss at lists.communitycourtwatch.org>
>> Subject: [sf-core] Re: [Peace-discuss] [Discuss] Fw:  What hath got rot?
>>
>>   It's hard to make sense of this statement, but it seems to be praise
>>> for our
>>> chief magistrate.  As such, it seems to be an example of what some
>>> psychoanalysts call "identification with the aggressor."
>>>
>>> Sticking to political as opposed to psychological analysis, it's clear
>>> that the
>>> health "reform" enacted by the current administration is substantially to
>>> the
>>> right of that offered by the Nixon administration (and torpedoed by
>>> Democrats).
>>>  Here's what the Nixon administration was talking about a generation ago:
>>> <
>>> http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stories/2009/September/03/nixon-proposal.aspx
>>> >.
>>>
>>> In terms of effect (as opposed to the personal commitments of leading
>>> members)
>>> the Nixon administration was clearly the most liberal administration
>>> since WWII,
>>> from the EPA to the negative income tax. It was driven to be so, against
>>> its
>>> will, by the accumulated political demands of "the sixties."  It took a
>>> major
>>> counterattack by capital, under the name "neoliberalism," beginning in
>>> the
>>> Carter administration, to roll it back.
>>>
>>> Nixon in the early 1970s proposed to reform welfare by replacing it with
>>> a
>>> guaranteed annual income; Clinton reformed it by abolishing AFDC. "Only
>>> Nixon
>>> could go to China"; only Clinton could destroy welfare.
>>>
>>> Today's Democratic Party, on economic policy and social welfare policy at
>>> least,
>>> is well to the right of the Republican Party during the days of Nixon and
>>> Ford.
>>> In fact the entire political spectrum in the US has shifted far to the
>>> right,
>>> such that the liberal/left would be ecstatic if even single-payer could
>>> ever be
>>> established here.
>>>
>>> That's the result of 30 years of reaction: we frogs think the water is
>>> quite
>>> temperate, thank you.  Try not to notice that real wages have not risen
>>> in
>>> America in that time.
>>>
>>>
>>> Melodye Rosales wrote:
>>>
>>>> Impossible to please everyone---Bush bankrupt us for 8 years
>>>> straight---so we
>>>> are trying to tackle an ambitious and financially expensive task----even
>>>> if
>>>> we are doing it one dime at a time!
>>>>
>>>> To echo those poor souls who were victims of the Stockholder's Bean
>>>> Counter
>>>> approach to the Health Care industry,
>>>>
>>>> /"CHANGE is never perfect. It's always gonna have its critics, Monday
>>>> night
>>>> quarterbacks, and when one thing doesn't go as planned---you're gonna
>>>> have
>>>> your share of "I told you so, you so'n'so"  But Thank the Lawd we have
>>>> somebody willin' to take on Goliath! Somebody who is willing to try
>>>> something
>>>> different because they see the suffering getting worse--- not better.
>>>>
>>>> Thank the Lawd almighty that we might  get at least one good clasp on
>>>> the
>>>> monopoly that has been insulating the Health Care industry, keeping us
>>>> from
>>>> pull it apart ----just enough---- to open the possibility for fair trade
>>>> and
>>>> competition.  Then--just maybe---we will encourage enough David's to
>>>> step
>>>> forward, enabling them to gain access to the support needed to maintain
>>>> and
>>>> sustain alternative venues for citizens of the most powerful country in
>>>> the
>>>> world to have the medical means to finally live long enough to enjoy the
>>>> fruits of their work in this Land of Plenty. GOD BLESS AMERICA and my
>>>> President, Obama!!!" /
>>>>
>>>> So, my trillion dollar question, "Who, before President Obama, was able
>>>> or
>>>> willing to provide a plan to include the 'have nots'? And, though the
>>>> Health
>>>> Care Bill is not a perfect piece of legislation, give me one that is,
>>>> one
>>>> that has gone this far to include a mass of people regardless of age,
>>>> gender,
>>>> economics, religion, political party affiliation or ethnicity?  Who?"
>>>>
>>>> It never ceases to amaze me how some of the biggest critics (on every
>>>> subject) coming out of the shadows have done---- what?
>>>>
>>>> I, for one, am so tired of the endless critics who cast blame and carry
>>>> no
>>>> sustainable solutions.
>>>>
>>>> Even locally, though I know most of you and believe you accomplish a
>>>> tremendous amount of good and goodwill--------I am still waiting for the
>>>> demonstrations and forums associated with, to stop being the end all
>>>> answer
>>>> to every inequitable problem and voter education and voter drives to
>>>> become
>>>> the new wave mantra, motivator, and means to exercise the voices of
>>>> change to
>>>> CHANGE the system into a more equitable playing field------right inside
>>>> Champaign County. Not just during the voting season---but year 'round.
>>>> Let's
>>>> start here.  The place where we live. We need registered voters who
>>>> actually
>>>> vote. We need to get them to the polls.  That is where CHANGE truly
>>>> begins
>>>> and ends.
>>>>
>>>> -Melodye
>>>
>>>

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