[Peace-discuss] [Announce] [Discuss] Fw: What hath got rot?

Wed Mar 24 17:51:17 CDT 2010

Hi all, 

I, too am among those who are 'screwed' by this bill. Mandatory health care through private insurance companies is NOT a service to people, it's a service to insurance companies. (as I saw IN MA, where I grew up, when they instituted a similar set up)

-elizaBeth

I freed a thousand slaves. I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves.
-Harriet Tubman

--- On Wed, 3/24/10, sandra.ahten at gmail.com <sandra.ahten at gmail.com> wrote:

From: sandra.ahten at gmail.com <sandra.ahten at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Announce] [Discuss] [Peace-discuss]  Fw: What hath got rot?
To: "unionyes" <unionyes at ameritech.net>
Cc: "Court Watch" <announce at communitycourtwatch.org>, "Peace-discuss" <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>, "sf-core" <sf-core at yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, March 24, 2010, 12:35 AM

I'm with Dave and John on this one. The bill will prob not harm me. But it will totally screw my son and other working poor. Totally. I'll lay my cash on the line on that promise. 

Sent from Sandra Ahten's iPhone

On Mar 23, 2010, at 7:28 PM, "unionyes" <unionyes at ameritech.net> wrote:

Thank You John !

Meloyde you can believe anything you want, that Obama 
is for the people and not the corporate interests, that he has ended the wars, 
that he has restored civil liberties etc., but don't try to belittle many 
of us who have led a lifetime of fighting for change ( including those of us 
who helped Giraldo get elected ) and see this and other 
issues as they really are.

Every industrialized country in the world has 100 % 
universal public health care ( nobody without ) except the 
U.S..
One of the richest countries in the world.

Obama is personally responsible for excluding all single 
payer advocates from his health care conference and the national democratic 
party excluded and then had arrested any single payer advocates who 
attempted to address the Congressinal health care committees.

 I would support this recent bill IF it was a 
step in the needed direction of a national single payer system.
But all I see is ANOTHER corporate gift to the 
corporate health insurance industry, like the bank bailouts that Bush began 
and Obama supported before he was elected and continued to 
support after he was elected.

This bill entrenches the corporate insurance 
industry and forces working class people to buy their over priced bullshit or 
receive a fine.
What will happen is that these people who are in 
most need of health care will pay the fine ( being put under even more economic 
hardship then they already are ) because the fine will be cheaper than the 
private insurance premiums, and they will still be without needed 
healthcare.
And the Obama administration and other corporate 
democrats plan on making additional cuts to Medicare and possibly raising the 
eligibility age from 65 to 67.

Is this the Hope and Change we voted for 
???
All I see is business as 
usual ! 

What amazes me is how people who should know better 
are so blinded and not see the corporate control of Obama and the 
majority of the democratic party. 

David Johnson

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: 
  John W. 

  To: Bob Illyes 
  Cc: peace-discuss List ; discuss at lists.communitycourtwatch.org 

  Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 5:03 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [Discuss] [Peace-discuss] 
  Fw: What hath got rot?

  On this list, three of us have been and are the harshest 
  critics of the new health care 'reform' bill:  Carl, Dave Johnson, and 
  me.  I'm curious which of the three of us has NOT, in the eyes of 
  Bob and Melodye, worked our asses off to try to make both the local 
  community and the larger society a better place, according to our lights and 
  talents.  Name some fucking names.

  The way I see it, most of the folks on this list have decent health 
  insurance, so they have the luxury of being "ambivalent" about the health care 
  bill, reminding us of its many virtues and counseling us to take a 'wait and 
  see' approach.  I, on the other hand, have no health insurance, and will 
  NOT have Medicare when I'm 65 due to a quirk in the law over which I had and 
  have no control.  I can't speak for Carl and Dave, but I have actually 
  suffered the indignity of sitting in the Frances Nelson Clinic, getting a 
  different doctor every time, KNOWING that there were tests not being performed 
  because Frances Nelson could not perform them in-house, and having pills 
  shoved at me which I KNEW would do no good but which were all that Frances 
  Nelson had to offer.  Having to present proof of income documents over 
  and over so that even Frances Nelson's precious and scarce resources would not 
  be "wasted" on me. 

  The only decent medical care I've received in LIFE was at 
  McKinley Clinic when I was a student at UIUC.  They 
  have government-run, "socialized" medicine there; the doctors are on 
  salary and all the services are "free", even the prescription meds, paid for 
  by a student fee.  There I finally found a physician (female - God bless 
  her) who cared about me as a human being, and ordered tests that were 
  based on what I as a patient NEEDED rather than on what I could afford or on 
  what paid the doctor the most money.  Sadly, when I ceased to be a 
  student I could no longer avail myself of her services.  God bless 
  her.

  So I'm afraid I can't be as blase as the rest of you about this shitty 
  bill which leaves health insurance companies firmly in control.  Nothing 
  at all has changed for me, not a God-damned thing.  And you can bet that 
  if nothing has changed for me, it's not changing for millions of other 
  Americans who are not, perhaps, as articulate as I am.

  Oh, yes, I forgot.  Something HAS changed for me after all, or it 
  will in - what?  2014?   I'll be mandated to purchase a terrible 
  private-sector health insurance plan, with money I don't have and with 
  deductibles and co-pays so high I won't ever be able to actually use it, or 
  else I'll be fined for my failure to purchase it.  Please forgive me if I 
  don't see that as a benefit.

  Yeah, I'll shut up now.  Every time I try to talk personal realities 
  "on the ground" rather than abstractions, all the liberals' eyes start darting 
  around the room, looking for an escape route.  Don't think I don't see 
  it.

  John W.

  On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 5:31 PM, Bob Illyes <illyes at uiuc.edu> 
  wrote:

    Melodye writes:

"It never ceases to amaze me how some 
    of the biggest critics (on every subject) coming out of the shadows have 
    done---- what?"

Precisely, Melodye.

Some pretext is 
    generally behind this lack of accomplishment. A "Christian" pretext is that 
    because of Original Sin it is not possible for a person to do good. A 
    "Marxist" pretext is that the middle class will always prevent political 
    progress, which isn't possible because the middle class is not yet 
    destroyed. Market Fundamentalism supplies its own unsubstantiated theology. 
    But don't be fooled. These are just excuses to hold in contempt those who do 
    their part to leave the world better rather than worse. These critics get 
    off on contempt. They attempt to set up abusive relationships with those who 
    would do good.

On a slightly different subject, I confess I have 
    never seen anything quite so revolting as the Social Darwinian arguments 
    coming from opponents of the efforts of our first black President and our 
    first woman Speaker. (Their race and gender have nothing to do with this, 
    right?) In the Gilded Age, it was seriously proposed that charity was vice, 
    because it lessened the pressure on those on the bottom to change their evil 
    ways. And now the new Gilded Age has arrived, with the same recycled 
    pseudo-scientific nonsense, that we all already get what we 
    deserve.....

Bob 

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