[Peace-discuss] [Announce] [Discuss] Fw: What hath got rot?

Tue Mar 23 23:35:08 CDT 2010

I'm with Dave and John on this one. The bill will prob not harm me.  
But it will totally screw my son and other working poor. Totally. I'll  
lay my cash on the line on that promise.

Sent from Sandra Ahten's iPhone

On Mar 23, 2010, at 7:28 PM, "unionyes" <unionyes at ameritech.net> wrote:

> Thank You John !
>
> Meloyde you can believe anything you want, that Obama is for the  
> people and not the corporate interests, that he has ended the wars,   
> that he has restored civil liberties etc., but don't try to belittle  
> many of us who have led a lifetime of fighting for change  
> ( including those of us who helped Giraldo get elected ) and see  
> this and other issues as they really are.
>
> Every industrialized country in the world has 100 % universal public  
> health care ( nobody without ) except the U.S..
> One of the richest countries in the world.
>
> Obama is personally responsible for excluding all single payer  
> advocates from his health care conference and the national  
> democratic party excluded and then had arrested any single payer  
> advocates who attempted to address the Congressinal health care  
> committees.
>
>  I would support this recent bill IF it was a step in the needed  
> direction of a national single payer system.
> But all I see is ANOTHER corporate gift to the corporate health  
> insurance industry, like the bank bailouts that Bush began and Obama  
> supported before he was elected and continued to support after he  
> was elected.
>
> This bill entrenches the corporate insurance industry and forces  
> working class people to buy their over priced bullshit or receive a  
> fine.
> What will happen is that these people who are in most need of health  
> care will pay the fine ( being put under even more economic   
> hardship then they already are ) because the fine will be cheaper  
> than the private insurance premiums, and they will still be without  
> needed healthcare.
> And the Obama administration and other corporate democrats plan on  
> making additional cuts to Medicare and possibly raising the  
> eligibility age from 65 to 67.
>
> Is this the Hope and Change we voted for ???
> All I see is business as usual !
>
> What amazes me is how people who should know better are so blinded  
> and not see the corporate control of Obama and the majority of the  
> democratic party.
>
> David Johnson
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John W.
> To: Bob Illyes
> Cc: peace-discuss List ; discuss at lists.communitycourtwatch.org
> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 5:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [Discuss] [Peace-discuss] Fw: What hath got rot?
>
> On this list, three of us have been and are the harshest critics of  
> the new health care 'reform' bill:  Carl, Dave Johnson, and me.  I'm  
> curious which of the three of us has NOT, in the eyes of Bob and  
> Melodye, worked our asses off to try to make both the local  
> community and the larger society a better place, according to our  
> lights and talents.  Name some fucking names.
>
> The way I see it, most of the folks on this list have decent health  
> insurance, so they have the luxury of being "ambivalent" about the  
> health care bill, reminding us of its many virtues and counseling us  
> to take a 'wait and see' approach.  I, on the other hand, have no  
> health insurance, and will NOT have Medicare when I'm 65 due to a  
> quirk in the law over which I had and have no control.  I can't  
> speak for Carl and Dave, but I have actually suffered the indignity  
> of sitting in the Frances Nelson Clinic, getting a different doctor  
> every time, KNOWING that there were tests not being performed  
> because Frances Nelson could not perform them in-house, and having  
> pills shoved at me which I KNEW would do no good but which were all  
> that Frances Nelson had to offer.  Having to present proof of income  
> documents over and over so that even Frances Nelson's precious and  
> scarce resources would not be "wasted" on me.
>
> The only decent medical care I've received in LIFE was at McKinley  
> Clinic when I was a student at UIUC.  They have government-run,  
> "socialized" medicine there; the doctors are on salary and all the  
> services are "free", even the prescription meds, paid for by a  
> student fee.  There I finally found a physician (female - God bless  
> her) who cared about me as a human being, and ordered tests that  
> were based on what I as a patient NEEDED rather than on what I could  
> afford or on what paid the doctor the most money.  Sadly, when I  
> ceased to be a student I could no longer avail myself of her  
> services.  God bless her.
>
> So I'm afraid I can't be as blase as the rest of you about this  
> shitty bill which leaves health insurance companies firmly in  
> control.  Nothing    at all has changed for me, not a God-damned  
> thing.  And you can bet that if nothing has changed for me, it's not  
> changing for millions of other Americans who are not, perhaps, as  
> articulate as I am.
>
> Oh, yes, I forgot.  Something HAS changed for me after all, or it  
> will in - what?  2014?   I'll be mandated to purchase a terrible  
> private-sector health insurance plan, with money I don't have and  
> with deductibles and co-pays so high I won't ever be able to  
> actually use it, or else I'll be fined for my failure to purchase  
> it.  Please forgive me if I don't see that as a benefit.
>
> Yeah, I'll shut up now.  Every time I try to talk personal realities  
> "on the ground" rather than abstractions, all the liberals' eyes  
> start darting around the room, looking for an escape route.  Don't  
> think I don't see it.
>
> John W.
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 5:31 PM, Bob Illyes <illyes at uiuc.edu> wrote:
>
>
> Melodye writes:
>
> "It never ceases to amaze me how some of the biggest critics (on  
> every subject) coming out of the shadows have done---- what?"
>
> Precisely, Melodye.
>
> Some pretext is generally behind this lack of accomplishment. A  
> "Christian" pretext is that because of Original Sin it is not  
> possible for a person to do good. A "Marxist" pretext is that the  
> middle class will always prevent political progress, which isn't  
> possible because the middle class is not yet destroyed. Market  
> Fundamentalism supplies its own unsubstantiated theology. But don't  
> be fooled. These are just excuses to hold in contempt those who do  
> their part to leave the world better rather than worse. These  
> critics get off on contempt. They attempt to set up abusive  
> relationships with those who would do good.
>
> On a slightly different subject, I confess I have never seen  
> anything quite so revolting as the Social Darwinian arguments coming  
> from opponents of the efforts of our first black President and our  
> first woman Speaker. (Their race and gender have nothing to do with  
> this, right?) In the Gilded Age, it was seriously proposed that  
> charity was vice, because it lessened the pressure on those on the  
> bottom to change their evil ways. And now the new Gilded Age has  
> arrived, with the same recycled pseudo-scientific nonsense, that we  
> all already get what we deserve.....
>
> Bob
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