[Peace-discuss] ron paul - we can do better with peace

[John W.]

On Sat, May 1, 2010 at 9:45 AM, E.Wayne Johnson <ewj at pigs.ag> wrote:



>  >>>I have a quite different idea than the Tea Partiers do as to what our
> "leaders" are lying ABOUT.
>
> And the proof of that is....?
>

I wasn't aware that I was required to furnish "proof", or that 'proof' is
even a relevant term.  But I'll try to furnish examples.  I trust that
you'll be reciprocating any day now, Wayne?  It's never too late to start!

Let me begin with your very own words:  "There are a lot of what I would
call 'peripheral' issues that get mingled in with the Tea Party/Liberty
message, and it is too often at the expense of the core issues.  For me, the
war has always been a core issue, and the inability of the people to
overcome the ruling class's insistence on imperialism around the world is a
major frustration with the system."

That's pretty much my point.  You and I understand that one of the BIG lies,
perpetrated by both Republicans and Democrats, is the lie that we're somehow
obligated to spend trillions of dollars, in perpetuity, to utilize our
military might, such as it is, to "keep the world safe for democracy",
"protect our national interests", and similar nonsense.  The threat of
'terrorism' is invoked to keep us in a perpetual state of fear and justify
the more-or-less unrestrained use of our military whenever and wherever our
'leaders' desire.

The Tea Partiers - at least the ones that I've talked to and hear about in
the media - think that's just great.  They believe that America is the
greatest country in the world, and will always be, and somehow has a divine
right to be because we're so 'godly'.  They embrace the doctrine of American
exceptionalism.  They believe wholeheartedly in the bogeyman of
'Islamofascists', and utterly fail to see that it is we who create most of
the terrorism in the world.  They think it's perfectly all right for America
to have nuclear weapons (and grudgingly accept the reality that China,
Russia, India, Pakistan, Israel, and a few other nations have them too), but
if Iran even dares to think about nuclear power - why, let's nuke 'em!
Because we KNOW that Iranians are thoroughly irresponsbile - or would be, if
they had nuclear power - while we ourselves are oh! so reponsible and godly!

Those are just a few of the lies the Tea Partiers believe which I know
are arrant nonsense.  Another is the idea that Obama is a 'communist' who
wants to take away their guns and dissolve their precious free market
economic system (and of course the lie that the 'free market' is any way
free).  That infamous sign, "Keep the government's hands off my Medicare!"
summarizes for me the blatant hyprocrisy and stupidity of most Tea Partiers.

You also mentioned the fact that Tea Partiers are mostly white, and
cautioned us against playing the race card.  Another official lie of which I
am cognizant, and of which the Tea Partiers are utterly unaware and
unconcerned, is the lie that our criminal justice system is in any way fair
and racially unbiased.  The fact that over 2 million of our citizens are in
jail/prison, and a hugely disproportionate number of them are racial
minorities who are in most cases disenfranchised from full participation in
American society after their release from incarceration, is nowhere on the
Tea Party radar.

No, to me Tea Partiers are mostly just libertarians with blind spots so huge
you could drive a Peterbilt semi through 'em.  They're all about "me, me,
me", and they're not even smart or logically consistent about it.  To quote
my erstwhile friend Ricky, I wouldn't piss in a Tea Partier's mouth if his
throat was on fire.

Now why don't YOU, Wayne, furnish some 'proof' that Tea Partiers are in fact
enlightened citizens with some real, workable ideas which will benefit all
Americans?



----- Original Message -----

>   *From:* John W. <jbw292002 at gmail.com>
> *To:* E.Wayne Johnson <ewj at pigs.ag>
> *Cc:* Peace Discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>   *Sent:* Saturday, May 01, 2010 6:27 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Peace-discuss] ron paul - we can do better with peace
>
>
> On Sat, May 1, 2010 at 5:13 AM, E.Wayne Johnson <ewj at pigs.ag> wrote:
>
>
>
>>  I think the point is that most of the Tea Partiers dont much like the
>> Republicans either.
>>
>
> I guess we'll have to disagree on that one.  They certainly seem to like
> the Republican slogans.
>
>
>
>>  Toys and Junk Food sounds good to me.  Stop by some time with
>> some watermelon and a few bottles of beer and we''ll do some karaoke.
>>
>
> Now there's an offer it will be extremely difficult to refuse.  ;-)
>
>
>
>>  Like I say though, these people lack good info.
>>
>
> Why?  It's certainly available, particularly in the internet era.  Why
> don't they read?  Why do they cling to the notion that Faux News is "fair
> and balanced"?  Why do they believe Rush Limbaugh's crap?  Why are they
> incapable of critical thinking?
>
>
>
>>  They arent violent.  If they were, there'd be outbreaks already.
>>
>
> There are.  There have been.  They're not organized, though.  Generally a
> single gun nut loses his mind and "goes postal".  It's very difficult to
> organize collective armed violence against the government in the United
> States, in case you hadn't noticed.
>
>
>
>>  But I dont think that they ought to be pushed any further.
>>
>
> Crap, there are virtually no limits to which the "great masses" of
> Americans can be pushed.  Especially when the propaganda is so pervasive, as
> Carl is always pointing out.  The masses LOVE propaganda as long as it
> caters to their insecurities.  They eat it up.
>
>
>
>>  In what ways are you like the Tea Partiers, John?
>>
>
> Precious few.  I like liberty as well as the next guy, but not to the
> exclusion of the collective good.  I recognize that most of our politicians
> are liars, but I have a quite different idea than the Tea Partiers do as to
> what our "leaders" are lying ABOUT.
>
>
>
>>  Have you seen the movie "Idiocracy"?
>>
>
> No.  Should I?  Who made it?  What's it about?
>
>
>
>
>>   ----- Original Message -----
>>
>>  *From:* John W. <jbw292002 at gmail.com>
>> *To:* E.Wayne Johnson <ewj at pigs.ag>
>> *Cc:* Peace Discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>>   *Sent:* Saturday, May 01, 2010 5:45 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [Peace-discuss] ron paul - we can do better with peace
>>
>>
>> On Sat, May 1, 2010 at 3:49 AM, E.Wayne Johnson <ewj at pigs.ag> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>  John,
>>> I think you are pulling my leg but I'll bite.
>>>
>>
>> Not at all.  I think anyone who would respect Sarah Palin and/or Dubya
>> Jr., identify with them, and vote for such characters, is just plain
>> stupid.   Stupid people are intimidated by smart people, and feel safe
>> around people who are as stupid as themselves, even if they are being led
>> over a precipice.
>>
>>
>>
>>>  Thomas Jefferson wrote regarding Shay's Rebellion:
>>>
>>> "...a little rebellion now and then is a good thing.
>>> The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of
>>> patriots and tyrants."
>>>
>>
>> *yawn*  You and Carl both have your favorite little quotations that you
>> trot out all the time, but they're usually pretty irrelevant.  They're full
>> of sound and fury, signifying nothing.   Who exactly is refreshing the tree
>> of liberty with the blood of patriots and tyrants?  Sarah Palin and Dubya
>> Jr.?  Surely you jest.
>>
>>
>>
>>>  There is a great mass of people in the USA who feel that their
>>> government is not responsive to them and takes
>>> their tax money and spends it for things they dont want.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, yes, yes.  And if that "great mass of people" paid no federal taxes
>> whatsoever, they'd spend most of their newly-found surplus on toys and junk
>> food, be as broke as before, and want the government to help them out when
>> they got in financial trouble.
>>
>> Plus they're too stupid to realize that, even as their (mostly Republican)
>> politicians are telling them how they're in favor of "smaller government",
>> the very same politicians are in fact increasing the size and complexity of
>> government and taking MORE of their tax dollars.  Ronnie Reagan, the "Great
>> Communicator", was a prime example.
>>
>>
>> They are the the masses of America and they perceive that
>>
>>>  the country is run by elite and immoral people who want to teach
>>> queer-ism and candy-ass Hillary-ism in their schools.  Again I think that
>>> Sarah comes off as being as fake as a 3 -dollar bill clinton but many of
>>> those people think that Sarah is like them.
>>>
>>
>> Precisely.  And the characteristic they most share is STUPIDITY.
>>
>>
>>
>>>  Hillary is not like them.  Obama is not like them,  Obama is not only
>>> black but he's a mulatto and an uppity one at that.
>>>
>>
>> Now there's a catchy phrase.  I need add no commentary to that.
>>
>>
>>
>>>  These people dont generally have good information.
>>>
>>
>> Precisely.
>>
>>
>>
>>>    They arent violent by nature
>>>
>>
>> Oh?  Sez who?
>>
>>
>>
>>>  but if they had the full scoop, then the elite bastards had sure enough
>>> better buy handguns.
>>>
>>
>> Why?  The "great masses of people" aren't violent by nature, right?
>>
>> Urg.
>>
>>
>>
>>>   ----- Original Message -----
>>> *From:* John W. <jbw292002 at gmail.com>
>>> *To:* E.Wayne Johnson <ewj at pigs.ag>
>>> *Cc:* Peace Discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>>>  *Sent:* Saturday, May 01, 2010 3:50 PM
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Peace-discuss] ron paul - we can do better with peace
>>>
>>>
>>>   On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 8:38 PM, E.Wayne Johnson <ewj at pigs.ag> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>  I heard Sarah Palin give her speech in St; Paul in 2008 and I dont
>>>> like her much at all.  But people relate to her because they think that she
>>>> is "one of us" (wrong or right).  Actually W had the same sort of appeal.
>>>> Whether she or W or any of the other cartoon characters are real people or
>>>> just electrons in a machine is irrelevant.  The people identify with the
>>>> character just like the kids relate to Mighty Mouse, Mickey Mouse, or
>>>> XiYangYang.  Ideology is bunk.  Manipulation of the masses is the only thing
>>>> that matters.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> And what, pray, is the characteristic in Sarah Palin and Dubya Jr. that
>>> causes "people" to relate to them, to think that they are "one of us"?  What
>>> are the "people" identifying with?
>>>
>>>

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