[Peace-discuss] [Peace] This list is for brief announcements only
Bill Strutz
bill.strutz at gmail.com
Thu Oct 21 20:25:24 CDT 2010
http://www.break.com/index/theres-no-point-arguing-with-an-ibex.html
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 7:19 PM, C. G. Estabrook <galliher at illinois.edu>wrote:
> Why? Does your inbox get clogged up? Does your delete key not work?
>
> 'If liberty means anything', George Orwell once said, 'it means the right
> to tell people what they do not want to hear'.
>
> Amen.
>
>
> On 10/21/10 7:03 PM, Stuart Levy wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 06:58:00PM -0500, C. G. Estabrook wrote:
>>
>>> Why don't you participate in discussions of this nature on Peace Discuss?
>>>
>>> I know that you at least once upon a time thought that our killing people
>>> in Asia was important enough to be concerned about.
>>>
>> Carl, and all,
>>
>> Please avoid discussions, regardless of worthiness, on the Peace list.
>> It is not for that, and we should respect the wishes of people
>> who choose to subscribe to it and not to peace-discuss.
>>
>> If someone else writes to Peace, and you'd like to discuss the issues
>> involved,
>> please *change* the destination to Peace-Discuss.
>>
>> On 10/21/10 11:38 AM, carol inskeep wrote:
>>>
>>>> Discussions of this nature belong on Peace Discuss.
>>>>
>>>> --- On *Wed, 10/20/10, C. G. Estabrook /<galliher at illinois.edu>/*
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: C. G. Estabrook<galliher at illinois.edu>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Fw: Money Can't Vote
>>>> To: "Gregg Gordon"<ggregg79 at yahoo.com>
>>>> Cc: "Peace List"<peace at lists.chambana.net>, "Peace-discuss"
>>>> <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>>>> Date: Wednesday, October 20, 2010, 11:09 PM
>>>>
>>>> First, Iraq and Afghanistan are both part of what the Pentagon calls
>>>> "The
>>>> Long War" (for oil) in the Mideast. So far, the US has killed a
>>>> million
>>>> people in Iraq under Clinton (whose Secretary of State said that the
>>>> tens
>>>> of thousands of dead children were "worth it"); a million under
>>>> Bush;
>>>> and
>>>> apparently hundreds of thousands in AfPak under Bush and his third
>>>> (Obama)
>>>> term.
>>>>
>>>> That falls short of the perhaps 4 million we killed in SE Asia, but
>>>> of
>>>> course Obama's escalated murders in SW Asia are in no way justified
>>>> by
>>>> being fewer in number than Kennedy-Johnson-Nixon's in Vietnam.
>>>>
>>>> It's difficult to determine when the Long War begins, but it takes a
>>>> tick
>>>> up in the Carter administration when Carter (and Obama's) adviser
>>>> Zbigniew
>>>> Brzezinski sends Osama bin Laden and friends into Afghanistan
>>>> (before
>>>> the
>>>> Russian invasion) "to give the Russians a Vietnam of their own," as
>>>> he
>>>> said at the time, in the most expensive CIA operation to date.
>>>>
>>>> If a Republican administration after 2012 brings Obama's AfPak war
>>>> to
>>>> an
>>>> end, then we'll have a third example of a Democratic war concluded
>>>> by
>>>> Republicans in as many generations. But that may not be likely. The
>>>> news
>>>> suggests that the Obama administration is looking to expand the war
>>>> with
>>>> an attack on Pakistan and/or Iran. It certainly isn't looking to
>>>> abandon
>>>> the world's greatest energy-producing region.
>>>>
>>>> Control of Mideast energy resources has been a cornerstone of US
>>>> foreign
>>>> policy since 1945. Obama is simply lying when he says the war is to
>>>> "stop
>>>> terrorism" - it obviously increases terrorism - but he has to lie,
>>>> because
>>>> the only Constitutional authority he has to wage war in the Mideast
>>>> is
>>>> Congress' "Authorization for the Use of Military Force" of September
>>>> 2001
>>>> - which is directed against terrorism.
>>>>
>>>> Something positive to do: years ago, there was a great debate in
>>>> America,
>>>> "How do we get out of Vietnam?" The best answer was given by Herb
>>>> Caen:
>>>> "Ships and planes." Load up the troops and bring them home. The
>>>> Russians
>>>> did - and survived and prospered from the end of their war.
>>>>
>>>> Eventually we did, but it took two presidents' being driven from
>>>> office
>>>> and (even more important) a revolt of the American conscript army
>>>> to
>>>> do it.
>>>>
>>>> Regards, CGE
>>>>
>>>> On 10/20/10 7:15 PM, Gregg Gordon wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> So I conclude from your statement that you don't consider either
>>>>> Iraq
>>>>> or
>>>>> Afghanistan to be "major" wars. So why are you so worked up about
>>>>> them? I think you're just still mad at Lyndon Johnson.
>>>>> And please, don't accuse me of being some kind of racist who
>>>>> doesn't
>>>>> mind
>>>>> us murdering brown people. That is /so/ lame. It's just that not
>>>>> all of
>>>>> us see the world in as simple terms as you seem to. Simple
>>>>> solutions
>>>>> are
>>>>> nice, but they're mainly for the simple-minded.
>>>>> All I'm saying is if you're so gung-ho on stopping the war, why
>>>>> don't
>>>>> you
>>>>> come up with something positive to do (as opposed to sniping from
>>>>> the
>>>>> sidelines) that might help get us closer to that goal? We'll all
>>>>> get
>>>>> behind you.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> *From:* C. G. Estabrook<galliher at illinois.edu>
>>>>> </mc/compose?to=galliher at illinois.edu>
>>>>> *To:* Gregg Gordon<ggregg79 at yahoo.com>
>>>>> </mc/compose?to=ggregg79 at yahoo.com>
>>>>> *Cc:* Jenifer Cartwright<jencart13 at yahoo.com>
>>>>> </mc/compose?to=jencart13 at yahoo.com>; Peace List
>>>>> <peace at lists.chambana.net> </mc/compose?to=
>>>>> peace at lists.chambana.net>;
>>>>> Peace-discuss<peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>>>>> </mc/compose?to=peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>>>>> *Sent:* Wed, October 20, 2010 5:10:40 PM
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Fw: Money Can't Vote
>>>>>
>>>>> You are aware, are you not, that America's major wars since WWII -
>>>>> called
>>>>> by synecdoche "Korea" and "Vietnam" - were started by Democratic
>>>>> administrations and ended by Republican administrations. Since the
>>>>> current Democratic administration has greatly expanded the killing
>>>>> in
>>>>> AfPak, it's hard to argue that they're going to reverse their
>>>>> policies.
>>>>> Voting for them is an acquiescence to those policies.
>>>>>
>>>>> To say of Obama and the Democrats, "Let them kill some Asians,
>>>>> because
>>>>> they might do some good someplace else," is at best a counsel of
>>>>> despair,
>>>>> if not an outright criminal attitude. Particularly when it seems
>>>>> that
>>>>> they're doing precisely the wrong things elsewhere, too - not
>>>>> surprisingly, because they're working for the owners of the banks,
>>>>> the
>>>>> insurance companies, the oil and construction companies, etc.
>>>>> --CGE
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 10/20/10 4:48 PM, Gregg Gordon wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe because there are other important issues that she /does/
>>>>>> agree
>>>>>> with him on. The only way you're going to find a candidate you're
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> 100% agreement with is to run for office. If support for the war
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> an
>>>>>> absolute deal breaker for you, fine. Not everybody sees it that
>>>>>> way. But if you think the war will end sooner if more Republicans
>>>>>> get
>>>>>> elected, I think you're out of your mind.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> *From:* C. G. Estabrook<galliher at illinois.edu>
>>>>>> </mc/compose?to=galliher at illinois.edu>
>>>>>> *To:* Jenifer Cartwright<jencart13 at yahoo.com>
>>>>>> </mc/compose?to=jencart13 at yahoo.com>
>>>>>> *Cc:* Peace List<peace at lists.chambana.net>
>>>>>> </mc/compose?to=peace at lists.chambana.net>; Peace-discuss
>>>>>> <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>>>>>> </mc/compose?to=peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>>>>>> *Sent:* Wed, October 20, 2010 4:33:52 PM
>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Fw: Money Can't Vote
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This guy supports the war. I can't see why anyone on an anti-war
>>>>>> list
>>>>>> would contribute to him.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10/20/10 4:28 PM, Jenifer Cartwright wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Another request for help...
>>>>>>> I love this guy!
>>>>>>> --Jenifer
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --- On *Wed, 10/20/10, Rep. Alan Grayson
>>>>>>> /<alangrayson at graysonforcongress.com>
>>>>>>> </mc/compose?to=alangrayson at graysonforcongress.com>/*wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *CallforGrayson.com<http://callforgrayson.com/>*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <
>>>>>>> http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=EiO1kyCw5ZXoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Make 10 calls now!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <
>>>>>>> http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=%2B2LAE05OJuToQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j
>>>>>>> >*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear Jenifer,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This election is about the people standing against corporate
>>>>>>> special interests, which are trying to bury me with lying ads
>>>>>>> because they know I can’t be bought. But money can’t vote
>>>>>>> – people can.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This week is the first week of Early Vote, which means people
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> Central Florida are voting right now.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Getting our supporters to the polls now could make up our
>>>>>>> winning
>>>>>>> margin, and that's why we need you calling supporters and
>>>>>>> asking
>>>>>>> them to vote.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You can start calling whenever you like, but*we really need
>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>> to start calling at 4 p.m. Eastern Time*.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Can you sign up for a shift *today from 4-6 p.m. ET
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <
>>>>>>> http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=skqQDKWGeY%2FoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j
>>>>>>> >,
>>>>>>> or this evening 6-8 p.m. ET
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <
>>>>>>> http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=5nA4hYzIEJnoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j
>>>>>>> >*?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We'll give you suggestions on what to say, and a reporting
>>>>>>> tool
>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>> it's easy to let us know how it's going.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Truth,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Alan Grayson
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> P.S. -- If you don't have time today, please sign up to make
>>>>>>> calls
>>>>>>> on another day between now and Election Day, November 2.
>>>>>>> Every
>>>>>>> voter you talk to will make a difference.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Sign up now.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <
>>>>>>> http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=BcjPfm%2B%2FQSzoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j
>>>>>>> >*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Paid for and Authorized by the Committee to Elect Alan
>>>>>>> Grayson
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> empowered by Salsa<http://www.salsalabs.com/?email>
>>>>>>> Web Bug from
>>>>>>> http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/TrackImage?key=29044283
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Peace-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>>>>>>> </mc/compose?to=Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>>>>>>> http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Peace-discuss mailing list
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>>>>>> http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>>>>>
>>>>> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>>>>
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--
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"The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting. It has been
found difficult and not tried." -- GK Chesterton
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