[Peace-discuss] This list is for brief announcements only
Jenifer Cartwright
jencart13 at yahoo.com
Fri Oct 22 12:44:46 CDT 2010
This is PERFECT, Bill, THANKS for sending it!
Of course Ibexes do have certain advantages and abilities that enable them to feel superior to the rest of us...http://www.break.com/index/ibex-scratches-butt-with-horn.html --Jenifer
--- On Thu, 10/21/10, Bill Strutz <bill.strutz at gmail.com> wrote:
http://www.break.com/index/theres-no-point-arguing-with-an-ibex.html
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 7:19 PM, C. G. Estabrook <galliher at illinois.edu> wrote:
Why? Does your inbox get clogged up? Does your delete key not work?
'If liberty means anything', George Orwell once said, 'it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear'.
Amen.
On 10/21/10 7:03 PM, Stuart Levy wrote:
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 06:58:00PM -0500, C. G. Estabrook wrote:
Why don't you participate in discussions of this nature on Peace Discuss?
I know that you at least once upon a time thought that our killing people
in Asia was important enough to be concerned about.
Carl, and all,
Please avoid discussions, regardless of worthiness, on the Peace list.
It is not for that, and we should respect the wishes of people
who choose to subscribe to it and not to peace-discuss.
If someone else writes to Peace, and you'd like to discuss the issues involved,
please *change* the destination to Peace-Discuss.
On 10/21/10 11:38 AM, carol inskeep wrote:
Discussions of this nature belong on Peace Discuss.
--- On *Wed, 10/20/10, C. G. Estabrook /<galliher at illinois.edu>/* wrote:
From: C. G. Estabrook<galliher at illinois.edu>
Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Fw: Money Can't Vote
To: "Gregg Gordon"<ggregg79 at yahoo.com>
Cc: "Peace List"<peace at lists.chambana.net>, "Peace-discuss"
<peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
Date: Wednesday, October 20, 2010, 11:09 PM
First, Iraq and Afghanistan are both part of what the Pentagon calls
"The
Long War" (for oil) in the Mideast. So far, the US has killed a
million
people in Iraq under Clinton (whose Secretary of State said that the
tens
of thousands of dead children were "worth it"); a million under Bush;
and
apparently hundreds of thousands in AfPak under Bush and his third
(Obama)
term.
That falls short of the perhaps 4 million we killed in SE Asia, but of
course Obama's escalated murders in SW Asia are in no way justified by
being fewer in number than Kennedy-Johnson-Nixon's in Vietnam.
It's difficult to determine when the Long War begins, but it takes a
tick
up in the Carter administration when Carter (and Obama's) adviser
Zbigniew
Brzezinski sends Osama bin Laden and friends into Afghanistan (before
the
Russian invasion) "to give the Russians a Vietnam of their own," as he
said at the time, in the most expensive CIA operation to date.
If a Republican administration after 2012 brings Obama's AfPak war to
an
end, then we'll have a third example of a Democratic war concluded by
Republicans in as many generations. But that may not be likely. The
news
suggests that the Obama administration is looking to expand the war
with
an attack on Pakistan and/or Iran. It certainly isn't looking to
abandon
the world's greatest energy-producing region.
Control of Mideast energy resources has been a cornerstone of US
foreign
policy since 1945. Obama is simply lying when he says the war is to
"stop
terrorism" - it obviously increases terrorism - but he has to lie,
because
the only Constitutional authority he has to wage war in the Mideast is
Congress' "Authorization for the Use of Military Force" of September
2001
- which is directed against terrorism.
Something positive to do: years ago, there was a great debate in
America,
"How do we get out of Vietnam?" The best answer was given by Herb
Caen:
"Ships and planes." Load up the troops and bring them home. The
Russians
did - and survived and prospered from the end of their war.
Eventually we did, but it took two presidents' being driven from
office
and (even more important) a revolt of the American conscript army to
do it.
Regards, CGE
On 10/20/10 7:15 PM, Gregg Gordon wrote:
So I conclude from your statement that you don't consider either Iraq
or
Afghanistan to be "major" wars. So why are you so worked up about
them? I think you're just still mad at Lyndon Johnson.
And please, don't accuse me of being some kind of racist who doesn't
mind
us murdering brown people. That is /so/ lame. It's just that not
all of
us see the world in as simple terms as you seem to. Simple solutions
are
nice, but they're mainly for the simple-minded.
All I'm saying is if you're so gung-ho on stopping the war, why don't
you
come up with something positive to do (as opposed to sniping from the
sidelines) that might help get us closer to that goal? We'll all get
behind you.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* C. G. Estabrook<galliher at illinois.edu>
</mc/compose?to=galliher at illinois.edu>
*To:* Gregg Gordon<ggregg79 at yahoo.com>
</mc/compose?to=ggregg79 at yahoo.com>
*Cc:* Jenifer Cartwright<jencart13 at yahoo.com>
</mc/compose?to=jencart13 at yahoo.com>; Peace List
<peace at lists.chambana.net> </mc/compose?to=peace at lists.chambana.net>;
Peace-discuss<peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
</mc/compose?to=peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
*Sent:* Wed, October 20, 2010 5:10:40 PM
*Subject:* Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Fw: Money Can't Vote
You are aware, are you not, that America's major wars since WWII -
called
by synecdoche "Korea" and "Vietnam" - were started by Democratic
administrations and ended by Republican administrations. Since the
current Democratic administration has greatly expanded the killing in
AfPak, it's hard to argue that they're going to reverse their
policies.
Voting for them is an acquiescence to those policies.
To say of Obama and the Democrats, "Let them kill some Asians,
because
they might do some good someplace else," is at best a counsel of
despair,
if not an outright criminal attitude. Particularly when it seems
that
they're doing precisely the wrong things elsewhere, too - not
surprisingly, because they're working for the owners of the banks,
the
insurance companies, the oil and construction companies, etc. --CGE
On 10/20/10 4:48 PM, Gregg Gordon wrote:
Maybe because there are other important issues that she /does/ agree
with him on. The only way you're going to find a candidate you're
in
100% agreement with is to run for office. If support for the war is
an
absolute deal breaker for you, fine. Not everybody sees it that
way. But if you think the war will end sooner if more Republicans
get
elected, I think you're out of your mind.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* C. G. Estabrook<galliher at illinois.edu>
</mc/compose?to=galliher at illinois.edu>
*To:* Jenifer Cartwright<jencart13 at yahoo.com>
</mc/compose?to=jencart13 at yahoo.com>
*Cc:* Peace List<peace at lists.chambana.net>
</mc/compose?to=peace at lists.chambana.net>; Peace-discuss
<peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
</mc/compose?to=peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
*Sent:* Wed, October 20, 2010 4:33:52 PM
*Subject:* Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Fw: Money Can't Vote
This guy supports the war. I can't see why anyone on an anti-war
list
would contribute to him.
On 10/20/10 4:28 PM, Jenifer Cartwright wrote:
Another request for help...
I love this guy!
--Jenifer
--- On *Wed, 10/20/10, Rep. Alan Grayson
/<alangrayson at graysonforcongress.com>
</mc/compose?to=alangrayson at graysonforcongress.com>/*wrote:
*CallforGrayson.com<http://callforgrayson.com/>*
<http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=EiO1kyCw5ZXoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j>
*Make 10 calls now!
<http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=%2B2LAE05OJuToQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j>*
Dear Jenifer,
This election is about the people standing against corporate
special interests, which are trying to bury me with lying ads
because they know I can’t be bought. But money can’t vote
– people can.
This week is the first week of Early Vote, which means people
in
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Getting our supporters to the polls now could make up our
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margin, and that's why we need you calling supporters and
asking
them to vote.
You can start calling whenever you like, but*we really need
people
to start calling at 4 p.m. Eastern Time*.
Can you sign up for a shift *today from 4-6 p.m. ET
<http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=skqQDKWGeY%2FoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j>,
or this evening 6-8 p.m. ET
<http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=5nA4hYzIEJnoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j>*?
We'll give you suggestions on what to say, and a reporting tool
so
it's easy to let us know how it's going.
Thank you.
Truth,
Alan Grayson
P.S. -- If you don't have time today, please sign up to make
calls
on another day between now and Election Day, November 2. Every
voter you talk to will make a difference.
*Sign up now.
<http://salsa.mydccc.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=BcjPfm%2B%2FQSzoQYu90OP6ADErf1BaXE1j>*
Paid for and Authorized by the Committee to Elect Alan Grayson
empowered by Salsa<http://www.salsalabs.com/?email>
Web Bug from
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