[Peace-discuss] J-Street

Fri Mar 4 20:26:25 CST 2011

Thanks, Bob, 

I appreciate your argument, where you are coming from, but half way measures with respect to the Israel-Palestinian morass will not lead to just solutions. 

My position is that a Zionist Israel that is hands-in-glove with the U.S. government as now constituted will never bring justice to the Palestinians.

Unless JStreet strongly condemns the Israeli occupation of the west bank and all the colonies there, the wall/fence, the private roadways, the attacks against Lebanan and Gaza, and states that a two state solution must offer real sovereignty to a Palestinian state, with borders that existed before the '67 war—already a compromise—, then I don't think that JStreet can be a real force for a just resolution of the conflict. Rather, J Street seems to seek only to weaken the condemnation of Israel that is prevalent throughout the world (as indicated by votes in the UN).  

Equating, as an example in the piece I forwarded from the J Street website, the Gaza rocketing of Israel with the attacks on Gaza is a indication of where J Street are coming from. I don't think we should accept that. 

I don't feel the analogy between the events in Egypt (where different forces came together against Mubarak, holds for Israel and the Palestinians. Rather, I would venture that J Street is an example of divide and conquer in the struggle for progress—the effort to render justice to the Palestinians.  On the other hand you may be right that J Street offers to some apologist Jews an outlet for their discomfort with the policies of Israel.  It is not enought for those whose sympathies and objectives are elsewhere.

As for your last rather clever metaphor, I  do not disagree that J-Street is the equivalent of AIPAC. Who said it was?

On Mar 4, 2011, at 5:46 PM, Robert Naiman wrote:

> Actually, J Street was against the Gaza invasion and is against the
> settlements.
> 
> But, again, my point is this: I do not think that J Street is above
> criticism. I, too, am closer to Jewish Voice for Peace than to J
> Street. My objection was to the sectarian character of the attacks on
> J Street that David posted.
> 
> If you look around the world and across time, a characteristic of
> successful political movements for progressive social change is that
> they have a sense of perspective about how they express disagreements
> between different groups of people working to oppose the status quo.
> They don't adopt rhetoric that says, X actor is so evil that they are
> worse than the enemy. Look at Egypt. There were movements of diverse
> views cooperating to bring down Mubarak, including the Muslim
> Brotherhood and young secularists. They didn't let themselves get
> divided. That was a key to their success.
> 
> There is an Arabic saying: "I unite with my brother against my cousin;
> I unite with my cousin against the foreigner." Relative to efforts to
> reform U.S. policy, Jewish Voice for Peace is my brother; J Street is
> my cousin; AIPAC is the foreigner. J Street is not "worse than AIPAC,"
> and anyone who says it is cannot be considered an authority to lead
> others.
> 
> 
> On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 4:52 PM, Morton K. Brussel <brussel at illinois.edu> wrote:
>> I have long ago cast J-Street from my interest in organizations truly
>> helpful for most Palestinians (not Abbas and his corruted cronies). It have
>> been apologetic of Israel and its policies, but for an Israel-light,
>> somewhat less oppressive, but still the oppressor. Any organization that has
>> Dennis Ross as a speaker on the issues of the middle east is not one that
>> should be supported by those looking for real justice there. Has JStreet
>> condemned the Gaza invasion? How about the Lebanan attack? How about
>> removing the colonial outposts in the West Bank?
>> Jewish Voice for Peace is far better in representing justice for the
>> Palestinians. The most effective and principled one from my perspective is
>> End the Occupation…. In short, JStreet is too in love  (in bed with) with a
>> Jewish Israel.
>> To get a whiff of J-Street, here is a statement from their web page: What is
>> omitted here tells the story.
>> 
>> Southern Israel and the Gaza Strip
>> 
>> J Street condemns the continuing rocket attacks on southern Israel from the
>> Gaza Strip. J Street urges Egypt and the international community to take
>> strong, responsible, and concerted action to prevent weapons smuggling into
>> Gaza.
>> 
>> J Street is also deeply concerned for the welfare of Israeli Corporal Gilad
>> Shalit who was abducted by Hamas and remains in its captivity. J Street
>> calls for the immediate and unconditional release of Shalit and his safe
>> return to his family.
>> 
>> More than eighteen months following Operation Cast Lead, Israel’s military
>> response to rocket fire into southern Israel, Gaza remains a huge concern.
>> Hamas is still in control, the humanitarian conditions in Gaza worsened
>> under the blockade of the territory, and rockets still land in southern
>> Israel. As we seek security, stability, and long-term peace, Gaza poses some
>> of the toughest challenges.
>> 
>> J Street supports internationally mediated efforts to bring Hamas and its
>> supporters into a political process based on non-violence and acceptance of
>> a negotiated peace outcome. We don’t believe this requires direct US
>> negotiations with Hamas, and we unequivocally reject Hamas’ use of violence
>> and terror and its anti-Semitic rhetoric.
>> 
>> J Street urges Israel and the United States to continue to address the
>> humanitarian situation in Gaza, including fully implementing its stated
>> policy of easing the blockade to allow a greater variety and volume of
>> civilian necessities, including unrestricted amounts of all foods, to enter
>> the territory. J Street urges Israel to continually review the maintenance
>> of restrictions on goods essential to civilian life — such as fertilizers,
>> water disinfectors and construction materials — to ensure that they remain
>> only to the extent necessary to meet its legitimate security concerns.
>> 
>> Before it was eased, the blockade helped create an underground economy based
>> on smuggling tunnels through which weapons, as well as basic necessities,
>> found their way into the Strip. Controlled by Hamas, the tunnel economy
>> financially benefited Hamas and increased its strong hold on the Gaza Strip.
>> We agree with Prime Minister Netanyahu’s assessment that easing the blockade
>> so that non-military goods can pass into Gaza through aboveground, regulated
>> border crossings will ease the humanitarian crisis while enhancing Israel’s
>> security. It will also assist the aid community in its efforts and
>> facilitate the reemergence of a private sector and business community in
>> Gaza.
>> 
>> J Street urges Israel to lift the export ban on goods from Gaza, to allow
>> the territory’s people to rebuild the commercial enterprises that will
>> reduce their dependence on foreign aid and Hamas’ patronage.
>> J Street urges Israel to ease restrictions on freedom of movement from the
>> Gaza Strip and between Gaza and the West Bank for those individuals who pose
>> no security risk, most urgently those requiring medical treatment not
>> available in Gaza. J Street also urges Israel to end restriction on students
>> from Gaza attending universities in the West Bank and overseas. What better
>> way to fight extremism in Gaza than to help young Palestinians obtain a
>> better education?
>> 
>> J Street believes in advocating for justice for all people everywhere,
>> especially those who are living in extreme poverty or distress. The
>> civilians in Gaza who have committed no crime against Israel deserve
>> opportunity, security, and education, just as all people do.
>> 
>> --mkb
>> On Mar 4, 2011, at 3:15 PM, David Green wrote:
>> 
>> Notwithstanding my distaste for JStreet rhetoric, I'm open to a diverse
>> movement, of course. My sense is that J Street wants to be its own movement,
>> and shuns practical connections with those on the left that might
>> conceivably be promising. Having one JVP speaker on an anti-BDS panel
>> doesn't change that. I'm not interested in the left being bad cops to
>> JStreet's Jewish good cop. If J Street is serious, instead of inviting
>> Dennis Ross and posturing barely to the left of him, invite a real leftist
>> for some serious discourse about the movement's strategy and tactics. But
>> they're not willing to have their feet put to the fire. Watching Ross and
>> the follow-up, it's just intolerable. The egos fill up the room to bursting.
>> I can't imagine being in that room and not feeling physically ill. There's
>> nothing whatsoever that speaks to reality and my concerns. Yet, the audience
>> sounds raucous and enraptured.
>> ________________________________
>> From: Robert Naiman <naiman at justforeignpolicy.org>
>> To: David Green <davegreen84 at yahoo.com>
>> Cc: Peace Discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>> Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 12:50:56 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] J-Street
>> 
>> So it has. I am not against any criticism of J Street over specific
>> issues. I'm against a sectarian, totalizing, ultra-left
>> Spartacist-style rhetoric against J Street that portrays it as an evil
>> cabal that is worse than AIPAC, and that claims that a broad assault
>> on J Street ought to be at the center of left critique.
>> 
>> In your last note, you implied that there was something wrong with
>> anyone who went to the J Street conference. I pointed out that Rebecca
>> Vilkomerson, Executive Director of Jewish Voice for Peace, was at the
>> J Street conference, where she gave a presentation on BDS. Doesn't
>> this fact imply that there is something wrong with the idea that there
>> is something wrong with anyone who was at the J Street conference?
>> 
>> Previously, you posted approvingly a note trashing a speaker at the
>> conference. I pointed out that the same source claims that J Street is
>> worse than AIPAC. Don't you think that claim is relevant to whether
>> that is a trustworthy source?
>> 
>> On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 12:18 PM, David Green <davegreen84 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> That's fine, but J-Street has opposed BDS:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> "J Street was slammed by Palestine solidarity activists–including
>>> Israelis–for actively working with organizations such as the right-wing
>>> David Project, Stand With Us and the Jewish National Fund against the
>>> landmark divestment effort at the University of California, Berkeley.
>>> After
>>> that episode, Jeremy Ben-Ami, J Street’s executive director, said that “J
>>> Street will not be signing on to letters with organizations like that in
>>> group settings again,” apparently conceding that J Street was wrong to do
>>> so.  And last June, during a Jewish debate on the BDS movement, J Street
>>> board member Kathleen Peratis said she would support the boycotting of
>>> settlement products (although this is clearly not J Street’s position).
>>> 
>>> But in a just-published interview with Hadassah Magazine, Ben-Ami says
>>> that
>>> “this very afternoon I have a meeting with people from Israel’s Foreign
>>> Ministry on how to address the BDS [Boycott Divestment Sanctions]
>>> movement.”
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> What exactly is J Street doing meeting with the Israeli Foreign Ministry
>>> over how to “address” BDS?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  http://mondoweiss.net/2010/12/what%E2%80%99s-j-street-doing-meeting-with-israeli-officials-on-bds.html
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> But in the final analysis, it's not about inclusiveness (although I'm not
>>> at
>>> all impressed with the speakers list, and the only Palestinian there was
>>> Abueleish), but about their approach. It's an insider approach, an elitist
>>> approach, and I don't see why Palestinians would find it helpful or
>>> credible.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> DG
>>> 
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Robert Naiman <naiman at justforeignpolicy.org>
>>> To: David Green <davegreen84 at yahoo.com>
>>> Cc: Peace Discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>>> Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 11:36:04 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] J-Street
>>> 
>>> Lots of good people were at the J Street conference. There was a panel
>>> at the conference on BDS. Here is the presentation made at the panel
>>> by Rebecca Vilkomerson, Executive Director of Jewish Voice for Peace:
>>>  http://jewishvoiceforpeace.org/blog/remarks-at-j-streets-bds-panel
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 11:31 AM, David Green <davegreen84 at yahoo.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Granted that Weiss is erratic, and often says the right thing for the
>>>> wrong
>>>> reasons.
>>>> 
>>>> Last evening I got most of the way through a 90 minute J-Street panel
>>>> which
>>>> included an arrogant talk by Dennis Ross, and follow-up comments by
>>>> Daniel
>>>> Levy and Bernard Avishai after Ross left (also Roger Cohen). Ross treated
>>>> the crowd like it was AIPAC, and got tepid applause (but applause
>>>> nonetheless) for reassuring them about the "unbreakable bond" or some
>>>> such
>>>> thing. Are such people (I mean the audience) a constituency for a just
>>>> peace
>>>> for the Palestinians?
>>>> 
>>>> The whole thing strikes me as insider politics, which is why I find it
>>>> repulsive. The Palestinians need a revolution, and there will be no
>>>> revolution from the top down. There isn't a Palestinian whose views and
>>>> work
>>>> I respect who would be in that crowd, I don't think. It's all based on a
>>>> denial--especially noticable with Avishai--of the revolt against
>>>> neoliberalism. That has to happen on the streets, not in such
>>>> conferences,
>>>> in any of the countries involved.
>>>> 
>>>> DG
>>>> 
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Robert Naiman <naiman at justforeignpolicy.org>
>>>> To: David Green <davegreen84 at yahoo.com>
>>>> Cc: Peace Discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>>>> Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 10:47:47 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] J-Street
>>>> 
>>>> Phil Weiss praises J Street:
>>>> 
>>>> J Street is liberating Jews from Zionism. So far so good
>>>> 
>>>>  http://mondoweiss.net/2011/03/j-street-is-liberating-jews-from-zionism-so-far-so-good.html
>>>> 
>>>> On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 9:30 AM, David Green <davegreen84 at yahoo.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Phil Weiss, no leftist, turns against J-Street.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>  http://mondoweiss.net/2011/03/ignoring-the-arab-spring-j-st-lobbies-for-more-money-for-a-govt-thats-cracked-down-on-protesters.html
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> "So the best J Street could do in lobbying was to push for aid to the PA
>>>>> for a force that will crack down on Palestinian demonstrators -- in the
>>>>> midst of revolutions against such forces all over the Middle East?"
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Peace-discuss mailing list
>>>>>  Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>>>>>  http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Robert Naiman
>>>> Policy Director
>>>> Just Foreign Policy
>>>>  www.justforeignpolicy.org
>>>>  naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Peace-discuss mailing list
>>>>  Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>>>>  http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Robert Naiman
>>> Policy Director
>>> Just Foreign Policy
>>>  www.justforeignpolicy.org
>>>  naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Peace-discuss mailing list
>>>  Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>>>  http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Robert Naiman
>> Policy Director
>> Just Foreign Policy
>> www.justforeignpolicy.org
>> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Peace-discuss mailing list
>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>> http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Peace-discuss mailing list
>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>> http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Robert Naiman
> Policy Director
> Just Foreign Policy
> www.justforeignpolicy.org
> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
> _______________________________________________
> Peace-discuss mailing list
> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
> http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss