[Peace-discuss] J-Street

Fri Mar 4 21:02:21 CST 2011

Bob surrounds himself with an army of straw men, against which he battles 
manfully, in order to obscure the fact that he is defending what is essentially 
a pacification program, designed to co-opt serious political opposition to 
US/Israeli policy.

These are the Obama years. --CGE

On 3/4/11 8:26 PM, Morton K. Brussel wrote:
> Thanks, Bob,
>
> I appreciate your argument, where you are coming from, but half way measures with respect to the Israel-Palestinian morass will not lead to just solutions.
>
> My position is that a Zionist Israel that is hands-in-glove with the U.S. government as now constituted will never bring justice to the Palestinians.
>
> Unless JStreet strongly condemns the Israeli occupation of the west bank and all the colonies there, the wall/fence, the private roadways, the attacks against Lebanan and Gaza, and states that a two state solution must offer real sovereignty to a Palestinian state, with borders that existed before the '67 war—already a compromise—, then I don't think that JStreet can be a real force for a just resolution of the conflict. Rather, J Street seems to seek only to weaken the condemnation of Israel that is prevalent throughout the world (as indicated by votes in the UN).
>
> Equating, as an example in the piece I forwarded from the J Street website, the Gaza rocketing of Israel with the attacks on Gaza is a indication of where J Street are coming from. I don't think we should accept that.
>
> I don't feel the analogy between the events in Egypt (where different forces came together against Mubarak, holds for Israel and the Palestinians. Rather, I would venture that J Street is an example of divide and conquer in the struggle for progress—the effort to render justice to the Palestinians.  On the other hand you may be right that J Street offers to some apologist Jews an outlet for their discomfort with the policies of Israel.  It is not enought for those whose sympathies and objectives are elsewhere.
>
> As for your last rather clever metaphor, I  do not disagree that J-Street is the equivalent of AIPAC. Who said it was?
>
>
> On Mar 4, 2011, at 5:46 PM, Robert Naiman wrote:
>
>> Actually, J Street was against the Gaza invasion and is against the
>> settlements.
>>
>> But, again, my point is this: I do not think that J Street is above
>> criticism. I, too, am closer to Jewish Voice for Peace than to J
>> Street. My objection was to the sectarian character of the attacks on
>> J Street that David posted.
>>
>> If you look around the world and across time, a characteristic of
>> successful political movements for progressive social change is that
>> they have a sense of perspective about how they express disagreements
>> between different groups of people working to oppose the status quo.
>> They don't adopt rhetoric that says, X actor is so evil that they are
>> worse than the enemy. Look at Egypt. There were movements of diverse
>> views cooperating to bring down Mubarak, including the Muslim
>> Brotherhood and young secularists. They didn't let themselves get
>> divided. That was a key to their success.
>>
>> There is an Arabic saying: "I unite with my brother against my cousin;
>> I unite with my cousin against the foreigner." Relative to efforts to
>> reform U.S. policy, Jewish Voice for Peace is my brother; J Street is
>> my cousin; AIPAC is the foreigner. J Street is not "worse than AIPAC,"
>> and anyone who says it is cannot be considered an authority to lead
>> others.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 4:52 PM, Morton K. Brussel<brussel at illinois.edu>  wrote:
>>> I have long ago cast J-Street from my interest in organizations truly
>>> helpful for most Palestinians (not Abbas and his corruted cronies). It have
>>> been apologetic of Israel and its policies, but for an Israel-light,
>>> somewhat less oppressive, but still the oppressor. Any organization that has
>>> Dennis Ross as a speaker on the issues of the middle east is not one that
>>> should be supported by those looking for real justice there. Has JStreet
>>> condemned the Gaza invasion? How about the Lebanan attack? How about
>>> removing the colonial outposts in the West Bank?
>>> Jewish Voice for Peace is far better in representing justice for the
>>> Palestinians. The most effective and principled one from my perspective is
>>> End the Occupation…. In short, JStreet is too in love  (in bed with) with a
>>> Jewish Israel.
>>> To get a whiff of J-Street, here is a statement from their web page: What is
>>> omitted here tells the story.
>>>
>>> Southern Israel and the Gaza Strip
>>>
>>> J Street condemns the continuing rocket attacks on southern Israel from the
>>> Gaza Strip. J Street urges Egypt and the international community to take
>>> strong, responsible, and concerted action to prevent weapons smuggling into
>>> Gaza.
>>>
>>> J Street is also deeply concerned for the welfare of Israeli Corporal Gilad
>>> Shalit who was abducted by Hamas and remains in its captivity. J Street
>>> calls for the immediate and unconditional release of Shalit and his safe
>>> return to his family.
>>>
>>> More than eighteen months following Operation Cast Lead, Israel’s military
>>> response to rocket fire into southern Israel, Gaza remains a huge concern.
>>> Hamas is still in control, the humanitarian conditions in Gaza worsened
>>> under the blockade of the territory, and rockets still land in southern
>>> Israel. As we seek security, stability, and long-term peace, Gaza poses some
>>> of the toughest challenges.
>>>
>>> J Street supports internationally mediated efforts to bring Hamas and its
>>> supporters into a political process based on non-violence and acceptance of
>>> a negotiated peace outcome. We don’t believe this requires direct US
>>> negotiations with Hamas, and we unequivocally reject Hamas’ use of violence
>>> and terror and its anti-Semitic rhetoric.
>>>
>>> J Street urges Israel and the United States to continue to address the
>>> humanitarian situation in Gaza, including fully implementing its stated
>>> policy of easing the blockade to allow a greater variety and volume of
>>> civilian necessities, including unrestricted amounts of all foods, to enter
>>> the territory. J Street urges Israel to continually review the maintenance
>>> of restrictions on goods essential to civilian life — such as fertilizers,
>>> water disinfectors and construction materials — to ensure that they remain
>>> only to the extent necessary to meet its legitimate security concerns.
>>>
>>> Before it was eased, the blockade helped create an underground economy based
>>> on smuggling tunnels through which weapons, as well as basic necessities,
>>> found their way into the Strip. Controlled by Hamas, the tunnel economy
>>> financially benefited Hamas and increased its strong hold on the Gaza Strip.
>>> We agree with Prime Minister Netanyahu’s assessment that easing the blockade
>>> so that non-military goods can pass into Gaza through aboveground, regulated
>>> border crossings will ease the humanitarian crisis while enhancing Israel’s
>>> security. It will also assist the aid community in its efforts and
>>> facilitate the reemergence of a private sector and business community in
>>> Gaza.
>>>
>>> J Street urges Israel to lift the export ban on goods from Gaza, to allow
>>> the territory’s people to rebuild the commercial enterprises that will
>>> reduce their dependence on foreign aid and Hamas’ patronage.
>>> J Street urges Israel to ease restrictions on freedom of movement from the
>>> Gaza Strip and between Gaza and the West Bank for those individuals who pose
>>> no security risk, most urgently those requiring medical treatment not
>>> available in Gaza. J Street also urges Israel to end restriction on students
>>> from Gaza attending universities in the West Bank and overseas. What better
>>> way to fight extremism in Gaza than to help young Palestinians obtain a
>>> better education?
>>>
>>> J Street believes in advocating for justice for all people everywhere,
>>> especially those who are living in extreme poverty or distress. The
>>> civilians in Gaza who have committed no crime against Israel deserve
>>> opportunity, security, and education, just as all people do.
>>>
>>> --mkb
>>> On Mar 4, 2011, at 3:15 PM, David Green wrote:
>>>
>>> Notwithstanding my distaste for JStreet rhetoric, I'm open to a diverse
>>> movement, of course. My sense is that J Street wants to be its own movement,
>>> and shuns practical connections with those on the left that might
>>> conceivably be promising. Having one JVP speaker on an anti-BDS panel
>>> doesn't change that. I'm not interested in the left being bad cops to
>>> JStreet's Jewish good cop. If J Street is serious, instead of inviting
>>> Dennis Ross and posturing barely to the left of him, invite a real leftist
>>> for some serious discourse about the movement's strategy and tactics. But
>>> they're not willing to have their feet put to the fire. Watching Ross and
>>> the follow-up, it's just intolerable. The egos fill up the room to bursting.
>>> I can't imagine being in that room and not feeling physically ill. There's
>>> nothing whatsoever that speaks to reality and my concerns. Yet, the audience
>>> sounds raucous and enraptured.
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Robert Naiman<naiman at justforeignpolicy.org>
>>> To: David Green<davegreen84 at yahoo.com>
>>> Cc: Peace Discuss<peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>>> Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 12:50:56 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] J-Street
>>>
>>> So it has. I am not against any criticism of J Street over specific
>>> issues. I'm against a sectarian, totalizing, ultra-left
>>> Spartacist-style rhetoric against J Street that portrays it as an evil
>>> cabal that is worse than AIPAC, and that claims that a broad assault
>>> on J Street ought to be at the center of left critique.
>>>
>>> In your last note, you implied that there was something wrong with
>>> anyone who went to the J Street conference. I pointed out that Rebecca
>>> Vilkomerson, Executive Director of Jewish Voice for Peace, was at the
>>> J Street conference, where she gave a presentation on BDS. Doesn't
>>> this fact imply that there is something wrong with the idea that there
>>> is something wrong with anyone who was at the J Street conference?
>>>
>>> Previously, you posted approvingly a note trashing a speaker at the
>>> conference. I pointed out that the same source claims that J Street is
>>> worse than AIPAC. Don't you think that claim is relevant to whether
>>> that is a trustworthy source?
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 12:18 PM, David Green<davegreen84 at yahoo.com>  wrote:
>>>> That's fine, but J-Street has opposed BDS:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "J Street was slammed by Palestine solidarity activists–including
>>>> Israelis–for actively working with organizations such as the right-wing
>>>> David Project, Stand With Us and the Jewish National Fund against the
>>>> landmark divestment effort at the University of California, Berkeley.
>>>> After
>>>> that episode, Jeremy Ben-Ami, J Street’s executive director, said that “J
>>>> Street will not be signing on to letters with organizations like that in
>>>> group settings again,” apparently conceding that J Street was wrong to do
>>>> so.  And last June, during a Jewish debate on the BDS movement, J Street
>>>> board member Kathleen Peratis said she would support the boycotting of
>>>> settlement products (although this is clearly not J Street’s position).
>>>>
>>>> But in a just-published interview with Hadassah Magazine, Ben-Ami says
>>>> that
>>>> “this very afternoon I have a meeting with people from Israel’s Foreign
>>>> Ministry on how to address the BDS [Boycott Divestment Sanctions]
>>>> movement.”
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What exactly is J Street doing meeting with the Israeli Foreign Ministry
>>>> over how to “address” BDS?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   http://mondoweiss.net/2010/12/what%E2%80%99s-j-street-doing-meeting-with-israeli-officials-on-bds.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> But in the final analysis, it's not about inclusiveness (although I'm not
>>>> at
>>>> all impressed with the speakers list, and the only Palestinian there was
>>>> Abueleish), but about their approach. It's an insider approach, an elitist
>>>> approach, and I don't see why Palestinians would find it helpful or
>>>> credible.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> DG
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Robert Naiman<naiman at justforeignpolicy.org>
>>>> To: David Green<davegreen84 at yahoo.com>
>>>> Cc: Peace Discuss<peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>>>> Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 11:36:04 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] J-Street
>>>>
>>>> Lots of good people were at the J Street conference. There was a panel
>>>> at the conference on BDS. Here is the presentation made at the panel
>>>> by Rebecca Vilkomerson, Executive Director of Jewish Voice for Peace:
>>>>   http://jewishvoiceforpeace.org/blog/remarks-at-j-streets-bds-panel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 11:31 AM, David Green<davegreen84 at yahoo.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Granted that Weiss is erratic, and often says the right thing for the
>>>>> wrong
>>>>> reasons.
>>>>>
>>>>> Last evening I got most of the way through a 90 minute J-Street panel
>>>>> which
>>>>> included an arrogant talk by Dennis Ross, and follow-up comments by
>>>>> Daniel
>>>>> Levy and Bernard Avishai after Ross left (also Roger Cohen). Ross treated
>>>>> the crowd like it was AIPAC, and got tepid applause (but applause
>>>>> nonetheless) for reassuring them about the "unbreakable bond" or some
>>>>> such
>>>>> thing. Are such people (I mean the audience) a constituency for a just
>>>>> peace
>>>>> for the Palestinians?
>>>>>
>>>>> The whole thing strikes me as insider politics, which is why I find it
>>>>> repulsive. The Palestinians need a revolution, and there will be no
>>>>> revolution from the top down. There isn't a Palestinian whose views and
>>>>> work
>>>>> I respect who would be in that crowd, I don't think. It's all based on a
>>>>> denial--especially noticable with Avishai--of the revolt against
>>>>> neoliberalism. That has to happen on the streets, not in such
>>>>> conferences,
>>>>> in any of the countries involved.
>>>>>
>>>>> DG
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: Robert Naiman<naiman at justforeignpolicy.org>
>>>>> To: David Green<davegreen84 at yahoo.com>
>>>>> Cc: Peace Discuss<peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>>>>> Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 10:47:47 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] J-Street
>>>>>
>>>>> Phil Weiss praises J Street:
>>>>>
>>>>> J Street is liberating Jews from Zionism. So far so good
>>>>>
>>>>>   http://mondoweiss.net/2011/03/j-street-is-liberating-jews-from-zionism-so-far-so-good.html
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 9:30 AM, David Green<davegreen84 at yahoo.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Phil Weiss, no leftist, turns against J-Street.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   http://mondoweiss.net/2011/03/ignoring-the-arab-spring-j-st-lobbies-for-more-money-for-a-govt-thats-cracked-down-on-protesters.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "So the best J Street could do in lobbying was to push for aid to the PA
>>>>>> for a force that will crack down on Palestinian demonstrators -- in the
>>>>>> midst of revolutions against such forces all over the Middle East?"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Peace-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>   Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>>>>>>   http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Robert Naiman
>>>>> Policy Director
>>>>> Just Foreign Policy
>>>>>   www.justforeignpolicy.org
>>>>>   naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Peace-discuss mailing list
>>>>>   Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>>>>>   http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Robert Naiman
>>>> Policy Director
>>>> Just Foreign Policy
>>>>   www.justforeignpolicy.org
>>>>   naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Peace-discuss mailing list
>>>>   Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>>>>   http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Robert Naiman
>>> Policy Director
>>> Just Foreign Policy
>>> www.justforeignpolicy.org
>>> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Peace-discuss mailing list
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>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Robert Naiman
>> Policy Director
>> Just Foreign Policy
>> www.justforeignpolicy.org
>> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> Peace-discuss mailing list
>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
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