[Peace-discuss] Fw: [socialistdiscussion] latest developments
David Johnson
dlj725 at hughes.net
Sat Oct 29 08:29:41 CDT 2011
----- Original Message -----
From: John Reimann
To: socialistdiscussion at yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 9:07 AM
Subject: Re: [socialistdiscussion] latest developments
Last night we met to try to organize the outreach for Wednesday's general strike/mobilization to shut down the 1%. The meeting was organized confusion at best. All sorts of different types with different agendas. The head of the Central labor Council was there. She and a few of her cohorts gave nice sounding speeches about how "we are with you", etc. A representative of the bureaucracy of the teachers' union spoke about how militant they have been, marching on different banks. This all received an enthusiastic reception from most people. One guy, a long time activist and former member of the Sparticist League who still uses their methods, made some long-winded political speeches - manifestos, really. This was during a meeting which was attempting to organize who was going to leaflet where for this general strike. At one point, he put forward a "proposal" (a motion) to rent a hall in order to have a general discussion. Later, he was angry that this never came to a vote - including being angry at me for not pushing it. (I told him if he wanted to rent a hall and organize a meeting he should do so.)
The confusion is a result of several factors: First and foremost is the lack of experience of the great majority. Connected to this is the fact that most of them are still pretty middle class, with all the liberal confusions that go along with that. Although they are being radicalized daily, at their core they still want to seek some compromise with the system and tend to gravitate towards anybody in a position of power, any authority, who will offer some kind words. The great majority of revolutionaries are the anarchists, as I've said before. They have one basic, fundamental strength: They understand that the battle is in the streets and they cannot trust anybody in a position of authority and that the main task is to mobilize as many people - especially the most downtrodden - as possible.
However, they are held back by a couple of important weaknesses: First of all they have these organizational fetishes, such as their opposition to election of a formal leadership. This means that it is nearly impossible to make any clear decisions in time, since it is totally unwieldy to make such decisions out of the blue at the general assemblies. So the unofficial leadership meets and decides what to propose to the general assembly, but the question that lingers - and surfaces every once in awhile - is why their proposals should have any more merit than anybody else's.
These confusions are tied in with their political confusions. They are completely hostile to the Democrats, as we are of course. But they have no alternative. The result of this is that they leave an opening for the "progressive" Democrats. This, of course, plays into the liberal illusions of many - probably most - of the crowd.
I want to emphasize, though, that I am working very closely with them and that overall they are the driving force behind this movement and playing a fundamental role. Without them, this would not be happening in this way.
My thought is that after Wednesday to see if there is a possibility to organize an open forum with myself, one of them and possibly the head of the central labor council to discuss what is the way forward. I've been able to achieve a fair bit of credibility so I think there's a good chance that I would be able to present the Marxist position on any such forum.
John
On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 12:16 AM, Ed Bober <ed at edbober.plus.com> wrote:
This movement is at its very early stages. It is rather vague and undefined. When the organised working class become more involved, I think the question of the need for a programme will gain prominence.
John's contribution at the rally clearly got a good reception.
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Ballard
To: socialistdiscussion at yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 11:41 PM
Subject: RE: [socialistdiscussion] latest developments
I was merely suggesting that (regardless of my age or the colour of my beard) science is confirming that humankind’s alienated confiscation of the means to sustain life from the rest of Nature is unsustainable, and that the only way to prevent further disintegration of communities and the denaturing of Nature is by replacing the basis of government from dehumanising confiscation by a few from the many to humanising cultivation by all for all.
Is it not the purpose of this discussion group to equip its members (as best as it can) to overcome the reluctance to clarify and advocate such demands?
Otherwise, aren’t we reinforcing the misconception that ‘our’ economic demands can be met without denaturing Nature elsewhere?
Isn’t that the essence of scientific socialism?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: socialistdiscussion at yahoogroups.com [mailto:socialistdiscussion at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Reimann
Sent: 27 October 2011 17:00
To: socialistdiscussion at yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [socialistdiscussion] latest developments
Thanks for your suggestions. The question of demands is difficult. There is a general reluctance to officially put forward any demands. When I spoke at the rally last Saturday, however, I put forward a series of demands or a program. These ranged from for a $20 per hour minimum wage and equivalent raises for all to supporting the Pelican Bay Prison hunger strikers and jailing killer cops and freedom for Bradley Manning and all political prisoners. In general, the response was very positive to all the demands. (You can see (hear) the demands on the video I forwarded to this list a few days ago. You'd have to go about half way through through the video to get to my speech.)
My feeling is that we old grey beards have always known that we need the youth, but that a youth movement is developing in a completely unexpected way and to an extent we have to "go with the flow", while not losing our balance. We have to keep in mind the things that we feel are important and look for the opportunity to raise them.
For instance, yesterday I had a discussion with a group of anarchists who are playing a leading role. For the first time I raised the question of a formal leadership including elections in the sense of saying that we should just keep this in mind, think about it. There was a general rejection of what I'd raised. Then, at the general assembly, some things came up that made clear that we revolutionaries may not always be in the majority and what happens when we are acting as the leadership but without the majority support. That will be used to further the thinking about these issues.
I think on the particulars of the program presented below that it's a bit too detailed and in-depth for what can be presented right now. Thanks for the suggestions, though.
John
On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 2:43 AM, Steve Ballard <steve.ballard at virgin.net> wrote:
Have you considered putting up a demand for cultivation not confiscation, based on the abolition of all accountable public debt to unaccountable private institutions, and the right of the general assembly to call political leaders to account?
Otherwise, what will the demands of the general strike be? Once the people have taken to the streets (as they are beginning to), which direction should they take?
Some of us tried to get this debate started within the National Shop Stewards Network, but it was blocked by the sectarian squabbling between socialist organisations claiming allegiance to Marxism.
I have started to circulate the article below to test the water.
Scientific Socialism in a Nutshell
The Declaration of American Independence states:-
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”
From Tottenham to Tripoli, it is a self-evident truth that all people are not born with equal unalienable rights. “Government of the people, by the people, for the people” is disintegrating. The rights described in the Declaration as ‘unalienable’ are being destroyed by the dehumanising form of government it instituted. More and more governments are becoming increasingly alienated and alienating by their collusion with the profit-driven confiscation of the means to sustain life without the consent of the governed.
More and more communities are finding they are unable to acquire and share the means to sustain life according to community-determined need, nurture their children and induct them into their community practices and hierarchies, and reassure their old and their sick. That is to say, more and more communities are disintegrating because they are prevented by their governments from cultivating themselves.
It is contended here that the deliberate cultivation of land, livestock and communities together with the (currently destabilising) development of inter-community relations has been (and always will be) the essence of all cultural practices. Consciously or otherwise, deliberate cultivation is the condition of humankind’s social existence. That is to say, the essence of human history is the deliberate cultivation of communities, land and livestock, and their over-arching government.
It is further contended here that the distinguishing aspect of our current epoch is humankind’s emerging recognition of the unviability of the prevailing destabilising, dehumanising, profit-driven confiscation of the means to sustain life from most of humankind and the rest of Nature.
On this basis, it is contended here that the only way to stabilise government is by deliberately empowering relations between democratically accountable cultural constituencies (particularly trade unions), and deliberately disempowering self-serving unaccountable profiteering institutions (particularly private banks).
That is to say, the only way to prevent further disintegration of communities and the denaturing of Nature is by replacing the basis of government from dehumanising confiscation by a few from the many to humanising cultivation by all for all — humankind working with the rest of Nature, not against it.
To accomplish this historically overdue systemic transformation of the over-arching government of culturally diverse communities, it is necessary for a critical mass of people drawn from geographically and culturally diverse constituencies to advocate an international programme of measures designed to deliberately empower humanising relations between diverse cultural constituencies (led by trade unions), and disempower dehumanising profiteering institutions (led by private banks), and mobilise those constituencies in solidarity with others abandoned and marginalised by their governments.
These measures will, of course, be different in different countries. Nevertheless, in most countries, the following will be generally applicable:
· Abolition of:
1. all public debt and usurious payments to unaccountable private institutions
2. all legal entitlement to inherited titles and confiscated (unearned) property
3. all anti-trade union laws, standing armies and weapons of mass destruction
· Formation of publicly accountable local, regional, national and international constituent assemblies to govern the systematic cultivation of:
4. all land, livestock and natural resources
5. sustainable relations between all communities and countries
6. education, communication and transport
· Implementation of progressive taxation policies designed to nurture:
7. sustainable integration of agriculture and manufacturing industries
8. sustainable distribution of national, urban and rural populations
9. sustainable consumption of the means necessary to sustain life.
(Those wishing to develop this ‘work in progress’ are invited to contact info at criticalmasses.net.)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: socialistdiscussion at yahoogroups.com [mailto:socialistdiscussion at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Reimann
Sent: 27 October 2011 08:15
To: socialistdiscussion at yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [socialistdiscussion] latest developments
I just returned from downtown Oakland. The turnout at the general assembly was overwhelming. The GA was held in the amphitheater of Oscar Grant Plaza. The entire "seating" area was packed from side to side. The depressed area between it and the stage was packed. The facilitators had to keep requesting that people move back because the stage area was packed full as was the walkway behind it and the City Hall steps.
We put a proposal to the crowd that one week from today we have a shut down and general strike in Oakland. Many concerns were raised - whether we could organize that in time, could we get workers to strike, etc. Boots Riley (of Boots and the Coup - an excellent radical rap group in Oakland) made the point that thousands of union workers are looking for some point of inspiration. Others pointed out that we have to strike when the iron is hot. In the end, the vote on the proposal went as follows:
"yes" -- 1,484
"abstain" -- 76
"no" -- 44
If comrades want to spread this message as far and wide as possible, and launch a call for a global general strike/day of action on that date, I think it would be great.
John
On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 6:30 PM, Sonja Engelhardt <sonjaengelhardt69 at gmail.com> wrote:
It looks like Downtown Oakland is (almost) re-occupied again right now. There are 2000 people down there in the middle of Oakland, (nearby the re-named "Oscar Grant"-Plazza) at this moment. The police brutality of last night has brought out a lot of more people, and the mayor doesn't know how to react. She even stated now that she "supported" the movement. A recent poll showed that almost 50% of the US population is supporting the "Occupy Movement" right now. The media coverage has dramatically changed too. The police brutality is shown on all channels and the reports in the papers and on TV about the movement are becoming increasingly supportive (of the movements and at the same time critical about what is going on in the US). I think a major factor is that middle class people are getting more and more involved - all the students who will never be able to pay back their student loans, for example.
They had a report today on the news about a student who won't be able to pay back her student loan before 2032 - exactly the year when her child will start going to college...
People are in debt and unable to find jobs. The fact that President Obama "was in town" as well this weekend, was only a secondary fact on the news. The media has its priorities right this time. It seems as if it is really about the people (and them taking action) instead of about politicians (pretending to take action).
Interesting developments!
On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 5:32 PM, Sonja Engelhardt <sonjaengelhardt69 at gmail.com> wrote:
I just watched a report in the news showing (on a major TV channel - you can probably see it on youtube as well) how other people were trying to help ths guy, laying emotionless on the ground and someone from the police threw another tear gas bomb or something like it just in the middle of the crowd, next to the Veteran who didn't even move anymore at this point. Horrrible. The Mayor of Oakland was giving a press conference about that right now. The event is supposed to be "investigated"... The people here are very upset right now...!!!
On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 2:13 PM, John Reimann <1999wildcat at gmail.com> wrote:
I have just been told that one guy, a member of Iraq Veterans Against the War, was hit in the head with a rubber bullet last night, that he's in the hospital and that he may die.
John
On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 2:06 PM, Felicity Dowling <feldowling at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Thanks John for all these reports.Well done indeed. We are living it with you. Each group even each individual will be experiencing this differently. Keeping in touch with the participants is a good idea even if things go quiet for a while. discussions will be very important. Felicity
From: John Reimann <1999wildcat at gmail.com>
To: socialistdiscussion at yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 26 October 2011, 20:03
Subject: Re: [socialistdiscussion] latest developments
A couple of additional points:
1) A number of occupations were raided about the same time. I figure the word must have been put out by the tops of the Democratic Party that this movement was causing too many problems and focusing too much on Wall Street and it had to come to an end. This was coordinated from the very top of the Democratic Party, in my opinion.
2) The police presence in Oakland was more overwhelming than anything I've ever seen, including during Vietnam War protests in Berkeley in the '70s. I don't know what if anything happened to spark the use of tear gas and stun grenades, but they were clearly primed for that. I think that overall the strategists for US capitalism are watching events such as those in Greece and know that sooner or later there will be riots in the US and they are practicing for that. The night before last was such a practice.
John
On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 8:44 AM, John Reimann <1999wildcat at gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks for the notes. When you're part of a movement and some in the movement decide to subject themselves to arrest, it's a very difficult thing to decide not to do so. In retrospect, I think I did the right thing based on one fact: All the "non political" young black guys I know did not get arrested. I think they saw that it was not matter of principle. I had lost track of them in the minutes and seconds leading up to the blitz krieg, but if they had been arrested I'd have felt very bad not going with them. The fact that we were more or less on the same page says something, in my opinion.
Yes, feel free to pass this around, but within limits. I'm still trying to work with this young anarchist crowd, although I'm becoming less optimistic about the possibilities there.
John
On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 8:32 AM, Julian Silverman <jsilverman at btinternet.com> wrote:
I agree with Tariq. Keep writing about all this. With your permission I will show this to our anti-cuts people....it offers valuable lessons
John Reimann wrote:
So here's what's happened in the last 24 hours: It was clear early yesterday morning (around 3:00 a.m.) that the cops weremassing and a police invasion was imminent. The occupiers started erecting"barricades" of wooden shipping pallets, trash cans, etc. around theoccupied zone. Most of them - the young anarchists - also fashionedbandannas to hide their faces. People rushing around in the dark, rearranging barricades, their faces partially obscured. Almost all got caught up in the emotions of the moment. This included me to an extent, which is how I knew that others were also being caught up in the emotions. It was extremely tense. I started walking around asking people what theywere intending to do and whether fighting the cops really was wise. Iexpressed my view that there were only two instances where I thought oneshould fight them: If you simply have no other choice or if you think youcan win. People agreed, but seemed reluctant to break the general flow. In other words, there was not general and conscious plan. At one point, a young black guy got into a loud shouting match with one ofthe young white anarchists. "Y'all aren't serious!" he shouted. He attackedthem for their bandannas, saying this would just provoke the cops. Much ofwhat he said was right, but his way of presenting it was wrong. (Interestingly, I kept waiting for him to attack them for being white and not knowing about the cops, but he never did that.) I was standing some 20 feet away, just observing. I don't know why, but after several minutes he came over to me and started talking. I told him I agreed but that we were all under a lot of stress and it was important not to add to the stress. He immediately calmed down and we had a great conversation. I ran into him several times later in the day and now we're best buddies. The cops arrived in a blitzkrieg and nearly surrounded the square literallyin a matter of seconds. I have never seen such a massive show of force and Iimmediately decided that it was best to vacate the premises as quickly aspossible. I and quite a few others found a corner of the square that wasn'tblocked off and got out. We were quickly driven up the street to at least ablock away. From that vantage point we saw all the police forces from thesurrounding towns arriving. This included what looked like armored personnelcarriers. I wasn't able to see it, but the reports were that the cops used tear gasand percussion grenades before driving in and arresting those who refused toleave or couldn't get out in time. There is a report of one person with abroken hand. Unfortunately, there was no plan to immediately regroup somewhere nearby soeverybody more or less scattered. With the concentration of cops in thesquare, it would not have been all that difficult to conduct hit-and-runoccupations of nearby street intersections. Later that morning, I went downto the other park that had been occupied. There were a few people - formeroccupiers - still there. There was also a clean-up crew from the City ofOakland. I went over to them and gave a little speech about how theirpensions, etc. were under attack and how our occupation was also for them.This was completely unplanned and in retrospect I think I should have alsocommented that we know that in the past we, union members, have been toopassive in allowing a select few to run our unions and how we can't affordto do that anymore and from there commented that we need to join together,that there should be a strike of all City of Oakland workers against whatjust happened and against the cuts in city workers wages and benefits. Instead, as planned, we regrouped at 4:00 p.m. There were well over a 1,000people there and the mood was very angry. Several speeches were given. I hadmet prior to the protest with some of the "insiders" who are the realleadership of this thing. I proposed to them that we go to the City workersthe next day and start to make the links. Everybody nodded wisely and thenthe meeting proceeded. The rally and march was something of a let-down. At one point, a few copsgot into a scuffle with the crowd. They had arrested a couple of people, forwhat reason i don't know. Some people spray painted the cops and things gotpretty ugly. The cops started shooting off tear gas and the crowd retreated. The rest was simply a let down. The crowd marching from one point toanother, now confronting a line of cops, then retreating to march elsewhere.I finally went home, but reports on the news showed a crowd of maybe 3-400continuning on until late into the night. Something has changed, and there were some huge opportunities here -especially to link up with the City workers. It hasn't been done, and it maybe too late for now, but it will inevitably happen. This evening there is tobe a march of parents opposed to the closing of some schools and theoccupiers will be participating. We'll see what happens. John
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"Poems don't belong to those who write them; they belong to those who need them" - from movie "Il Postino"
Check out: http://worldwidesocialist.net/blog/
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"Poems don't belong to those who write them; they belong to those who need them" - from movie "Il Postino"
Check out: http://worldwidesocialist.net/blog/
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"Poems don't belong to those who write them; they belong to those who need them" - from movie "Il Postino"
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Check out: http://worldwidesocialist.net/blog/
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