[Peace-discuss] hasta la vista, baby.

["E. Wayne Johnson 朱稳森"]

Actually, over 30,000 signatures on a petition for secession were 
collected in each of several states.

“If at first you don't secede, try, try, again.”

The anti-federalist sentiment and persuasion is not limited to the
South (although it is more pervasive there).  Vermont, New Hampshire,
Oregon, Hawaii, and even upper New York State have some secessionist 
movements.


On 12/24/12 0:58, David Johnson wrote:
> *I heard recently that many people in Texas wanted to secede from the 
> U.S.,*
> *No problem, I will sign that petition, but hopefully Austin Texas 
> will want to be a " Free City State " totally autonomous from the 
> state of Texas.*
> *David J.*
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     *From:* "E. Wayne Johnson 朱稳森" <mailto:ewj at pigsqq.org>
>     *To:* Peace-discuss <mailto:peace-discuss at anti-war.net>
>     *Sent:* Sunday, December 23, 2012 7:32 AM
>     *Subject:* [Peace-discuss] hasta la vista, baby.
>
>
>           It seems far from settled.
>
>
>           Parting Company
>
>     Over 150 years ago, the Northern Democratic and Republican parties
>     favored allowing the South to secede in peace. Just about every
>     major Northern newspaper editorialized in favor of the South's
>     right to secede. New York Tribune (Feb. 5, 1860): "If tyranny and
>     despotism justified the Revolution of 1776, then we do not see why
>     it would not justify the secession of Five Millions of Southrons
>     from the Federal Union in 1861." Detroit Free Press (Feb. 19,
>     1861/): "An attempt to subjugate the seceded States, even if
>     successful, could produce nothing but evil – evil unmitigated in
>     character and appalling in content."/ The New York Times (March
>     21, 1861): "There is growing sentiment throughout the North in
>     favor of letting the Gulf States go."
>
>     There's more evidence seen at the time our Constitution was
>     ratified. The ratification documents of Virginia, New York and
>     Rhode Island explicitly said that they held the right to resume
>     powers delegated, should the federal government become abusive of
>     those powers. The Constitution would have never been ratified if
>     states thought that they could not maintain their sovereignty.
>
>     The War of 1861 settled the issue of secession through brute force
>     that cost 600,000 American lives. Americans celebrate Abraham
>     Lincoln's Gettysburg Address, but H.L. Mencken correctly evaluated
>     the speech, "It is poetry, not logic; beauty, not sense." Lincoln
>     said that the soldiers sacrificed their lives "to the cause of
>     self-determination – that government of the people, by the people,
>     for the people should not perish from the earth." Mencken says:
>     "It is difficult to imagine anything more untrue. The Union
>     soldiers in the battle actually fought against self-determination;
>     it was the Confederates who fought for the right of people to
>     govern themselves."
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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