[Peace-discuss] Make you stop and wonder.

Mon Feb 6 15:20:05 CST 2012

When you come to a fork in the road, take it.

One is the ballot box and working within that system (vertical activism).

The other method is physical violent overthrow of the system (horizontal 
activism) such as
depicted in the Arab theatre.

It has been noted that aside from bloodletting there is no remission of 
sins.
(That is a principle, Godel offers the complete proof of it beyond r/w.)
The notion that the blood has been shed vicariously is significant to 
those seeking peace.

Accepting or ignoring does nothing to the truth, doing /for/ the truth 
is different.

Those who take up the literal sword are bound to feel its sting.
Those who take up the literary sword can raise the stink.

...for a local Peace group the notion of violence at all, let alone 
successfully executed acts of violence,
is ridiculous.  Even if it is somehow morally acceptable to foment and 
inact violence
(a twister on "taking up guns so that one can put them down"), an 
assessment of the
situation should remind one that the likelihood of success recommends 
the Vertical approach.
Ten thousand is symbolically infinity in many languages/cultures.
What's a thousand against a lazy 8?
The well adapted parasite doesnt seek the death of the host but rather 
works to
work out a premunitive niche via its ambassage.

Doing nothing has been suggested, i am not sure that can
reconcile the finite and the infinite.

I think the Salt is called to be Salty.  If the salt is not about being 
at its saltiness,
then it is sure enough useless.

By queueing up to vote one can eat them one at a time.

Why not?

On 2/7/2012 2:58 AM, Laurie Solomon wrote:
> Of course that misses my point entirely or sidesteps it, which is what 
> I should have expected.  What you suggest might make sense if one were 
> committed to the electoral process and thought that it was an 
> effective avenue of systemic change in governmental policy and actions 
> rather than a false façade that masks at best minor changes (i.e., 
> reforms) on the periphery.  As I said the election is a rat race in 
> which the winners and losers are rats where - maybe - some rats are 
> better or more equal than the other rats in the race; but a rat is a rat.
>
> Your response may also make sense if one has faith in the ability of 
> one person in a position of authority, power, leadership to actually 
> control their underlings and their actions significantly enough to 
> make systemic and radical changes in the nature and direction of the 
> broader governmental policies and practices - especially if they  plan 
> to be re-elected, to effectively work with the legislative branch, to 
> overcome resistance of the bureaucratic old guard in the 
> administrative agencies and in the military, or get the corporate 
> establishment to actively support and implement changes in their 
> policies and practices in ways that may not be in their narrow 
> self-interest.  I see it the other way.  Even if one should elect a 
> black sheep to the office of President, it is like replacing one of 
> the heads of a hydra, where all the other heads will be conspiring to 
> undermine the new head and continue doing what they have always done.  
> I do not have any faith in the "great man" or "great leader" approach 
> to social change - especially in a society that is not entirely 
> totalitarian yet but might become in the near future if things 
> continue as they have been going.
>
> My pessimism and cynicism may cause some to ask what I propose as a 
> way to bring about change; my response at this time and place is that 
> what I would propose (which might be futile and result in the complete 
> destruction of radical or progressive individuals and movements) is 
> something that Americans are not going to undertake in my lifetime - 
> if ever - so why bother to engage in Don Quixote like battles (as 
> Sancho Panches says in Man from La Mancha, "whether the stone hits the 
> pitcher or the pitcher hits the stone, it is going to be bad for the 
> pitcher").  I just as soon sit and watch the serpent eat its tail and 
> let the US destroy itself and the world for that matter - both may 
> deserve it.
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Estabrook, Carl G
> Sent: February 05, 2012 11:21 PM
> To: E. Wayne Johnson ; Laurie Solomon
> Cc: peace-discuss
> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Make you stop and wonder.
>
> Also there's no one else running as a Rep or Dem who's committed to 
> ending thje most racist policy by far of the federal government, the 
> 'war on drugs.'
>
> If one wants to make an 'anti-war anti-racism effort' in electoral 
> politics, the only major party candidate to back is Ron Paul.
>
> In Illinois, one can take a Republican ballot in the March 20 primary 
> & vote for his delegates. In the general election, one can vote for a 
> 3rd-party candidate - Green, Justice - or perhaps for Paul if he runs 
> ndependently.  --CGE
>
>
> "Whether you agree with Ron Paul on every point is irrelevant--
> there's NO ONE else running [AS A REP OR DEM] determined
> to stop the wars, torture, renditions, assasinations and spying
> committed daily in your name and at your expense."
>
> _______________________________________________
> Peace-discuss mailing list
> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
> http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>
>

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