[Peace-discuss] [sf-core] Ron Paul, Electoral Politics, and the Workers' Movement

[C. G. Estabrook]

People who are charged with conspiracy to murder should be extradited,  
charged, and tried - as the Afghan government offered to discuss in  
regard to Osama bin Laden in 2001.

The Bush administration refused to negotiate and, contrary to  
international law, launched an aggressive war that enveloped the region.

The Obama administration - as usual even more brutal and lawless than  
the Bush administration - invaded a sovereign country with one of its  
preferred assassination teams, multiply violating international law.  
(Typically, Ron Paul is the only candidate to point out the massive  
illegality.)

The story is out there for anyone caring to look. Hastings' is only  
the most recent account.

Doug and I are acquainted but hardly 'good buddies'...

--CGE


On Jan 23, 2012, at 10:12 PM, Roger Helbig wrote:

> What do you propose to do with people who have sworn to kill you and
> me like Anwar Alawaki?  He had already gotten how many Americans
> killed - or do you not count soldiers at Fort Hood as your fellow
> Americans -
>
> I do not know much about Hastings or his book - will look into him -
>
> I suppose you are a good buddy with Douglas Lind Rokke as well?   
> Just curious,
>
> Roger
>
> On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 7:41 PM, C. G. Estabrook <cge at shout.net>  
> wrote:
>> Death squads are now called "Special Operations" and are the  
>> principal
>> tactic employed by the US in Obama's expanded wars in Asia and  
>> Africa. The
>> US military's murderous mind-set is described most recently in  
>> Michael
>> Hastings' book, just out, "The Operators."
>>
>> Assassinations are also the tactic of choice in Obama's expansion  
>> of the war
>> into Asia and Africa with his "secret" (and illegal) drone strikes,  
>> which
>> have appalled the world. He hasn't hesitated at even the summary  
>> execution
>> of Americans (Anwar Alawlaki, his associate, and his teen-aged family
>> members - all US citizens.)
>>
>> Today the US government is threatening, invading, and occupying  
>> countries
>> from the Maghreb to the Subcontinent, and from Central Asia to  
>> Central
>> Africa - a vast circle with more than 2,000-mile radius, sometimes  
>> called
>> the Greater Middle East: the US military calls it "Central  
>> Command." This
>> region has the world's greatest concentration of oil and natural  
>> gas, and
>> our government is spending hundreds of billions of dollars, month  
>> after
>> month, to control it. Control and not just access to these energy  
>> resources
>> is what the USG wants: we in fact import very little oil from the  
>> Mideast,
>> contrary to what you've heard, but control gives the USG an  
>> unparalleled
>> advantage over its oil-hungry rivals in Europe and Asia.
>>
>> We're killing people in the Mideast and North Africa because China  
>> needs
>> oil, and our government wants to control where they get it. Our  
>> government
>> says that we're conducting these vastly expensive wars to stop  
>> terrorism and
>> protect civilians; but we can see that, instead, we're killing  
>> civilians and
>> creating terrorists. These wars are in the interests of the 1% -  
>> and against
>> the interests of the vast majority of Americans, as well as people  
>> in the
>> rest of the world.
>>
>> The International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg called the waging of
>> aggressive war "essentially an evil thing ... to initiate a war of
>> aggression ... is not only an international crime; it is the supreme
>> international crime, differing only from other war crimes in that it
>> contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole." Barack  
>> Obama and
>> his associates should be in cells at The Hague, awaiting trail on  
>> those
>> charges. (Unlike him, international law doesn't countenance  
>> indefinite
>> imprisonment without charge or trial.)  --CGE
>>
>>
>> On Jan 23, 2012, at 8:38 PM, Roger Helbig wrote:
>>
>> You seem to have not gotten beyond being a radical in the 60's -  
>> death
>> squads and assasinations - where?
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 6:34 PM, C. G. Estabrook <cge at shout.net>  
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Obama is killing people every day with his expanding wars in Asia  
>>> and
>>> Africa, his drone strikes, his death squads and assassinations.   
>>> To say that
>>> one will countenance that, because it's possible that an  
>>> opponent's views on
>>> climate change, if acted upon, might have a catastrophic effect,  
>>> is mad. "Go
>>> ahead and kill people, Barack, because the only candidate opposing  
>>> your
>>> crimes doesn't believe in global warming, so we'll give you a second
>>> term..."
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jan 23, 2012, at 6:59 PM, Brussel Morton K. wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Most of us already know that Ron Paul is a reactionary on economic
>>> policies, essentially isolationist in foreign policy (although I'm  
>>> not sure
>>> about how he would treat oil and resource extraction corporations,  
>>> e.g., how
>>> to protect them for our national interest), and a "libertarian" on  
>>> certain
>>> civil rights, (excepting women's choice issues)—i.e., let anyone  
>>> do mostly
>>> what they want, discriminate, carry guns wherever, get rid of public
>>> education, any social or health safety net,  ….  On the other  
>>> hand, It might
>>> not be a bad idea to advertise/promote his anti-war foreign policy
>>> statements vis-a vis Obama and the other Repubs in the interest of  
>>> popular
>>> education, but how could anyone with a humane social concern  
>>> domestically
>>> ever vote for him? The havoc and misery his domestic policies  
>>> would entail
>>> is inestimable. As Carl's opponent, John Reimann, in Dave  
>>> Johnson's program
>>> noted, a dying off (call it murder?) of large segments of our  
>>> populations
>>> could be expected in such an advent. Like in Russia after the USSR  
>>> was
>>> dissolved. If you look at the details, it is simply crazy.
>>>
>>>
>>> My impressions from that fascinating program.
>>>
>>> --mkb
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jan 23, 2012, at 5:50 PM, C. G. Estabrook wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> And here's an account of what John was upset about:
>>> <http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/12/matt-stoller-why-ron-paul-challenges-liberals.html
>>>> .
>>>
>>> On Jan 21, 2012, at 7:43 PM, C. G. ESTABROOK wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Saturday 21 January, David Johnson, Bob Paleczny, Bill Gorrell,
>>>> and Tom Thomas hosted a debate - "Ron Paul, Electoral Politics, and
>>>> the Workers' Movement" - between Carl Estabrook of News from  
>>>> Neptune
>>>> and labor activist John Reimann on the Illinois World Labor Hour.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks to David who arranged it, and Bob, who made it available
>>>> online. The first hour of the show is at
>>>> <http://radio4all.net/index.php/program/57180
>>>>> - the debate begins in the last third; the second hour, containing
>>>> the majority of the debate, is at
>>>> <http://radio4all.net/index.php/program/57182
>>>>> .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --CGE
>>>>
>>
>>