[Peace-discuss] [SDaS] Fwd: Unable to deliver your message

Wed Nov 14 20:33:37 UTC 2012

I take Rachel's point. Different people are on different lists. I'm
finished with this discussion. I made all the points I wanted to make.

On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 10:10 PM, Rachel Storm <rachelstrm at gmail.com> wrote:
> I just want to point out here, how this is an example of how problematically
> these listservs are being used, willy-nilly. I am not on SF-core and
> therefore unable to response when emails I write on other lists are
> forwarded there. I think this is an example of bad practice.
>
>
>
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> Subject: Unable to deliver your message
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> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Rachel Storm <rachelstrm at gmail.com>
> To: Robert Naiman <naiman at justforeignpolicy.org>
> Cc: Brook Celeste Lillard <emailbrook at gmail.com>, "Brussel, Morton K"
> <brussel at illinois.edu>, Julianne Panagacos <julianne.panagacos at gmail.com>,
> sdas <sdas-list at googlegroups.com>, Peace-discuss List
> <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>, SFcore <sf-core at yahoogroups.com>,
> centraliljwj <CentralILJwJ at yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 11:04:18 -0600
> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [SDaS] In response to recent emails and IMC
> case
> Bob,
>
> In the future, it might be important to allow me to answer questions you
> have about what I've shared rather than make assumptions. I'm actually not
> just talking about the "IMC" but rather, as I indicate, a larger community
> of activists (i.e. people who care to respond to injustice). I wouldn't have
> written that e-mail to a number of lists (that you identified), dismissing
> my own irritation about the way these listservs are used, if I didn't think
> the majority of the audience fit within what I was loosely calling
> "community," And trust me, I don't feel "mushy" about any of it--it's
> painfully obvious that care and commitment to community is not freely given
> or even assumed.
>
> The IMCs structure is explained here:
> http://www.ucimc.org/content/uc-imc-structure-legal-docs
> (To be honest, I see a lot more transparency with structure and who is on
> the board than with a number of other organizations in CU.)
>
> As far as "part of the IMC"--I think you'll find that a community
> center/media center, which is what I personally think the IMC serves as, is
> home or work or space or studio to a number of different people of a number
> of different projects or moments. Yes, there is a board. Yes, there is
> staff. And there are people who volunteer and create (without compensation)
> radio shows, events, working groups, schools, etc. These are good questions
> for a board member.
>
> RS
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 10:32 AM, Robert Naiman
> <naiman at justforeignpolicy.org> wrote:
>>
>> I didn't mean it as an insult, or a dismissal.
>>
>> When Rachel refers to "our community," I think she means the community
>> of people who feel that they are part of the IMC. I don't think she
>> means everyone domiciled in Champaign-Urbana. I think the community of
>> people who feel that they are part of the iMC and people who are
>> domiciled in Champaign-Urbana are different groups of people who don't
>> necessarily have the same interests. I am domiciled in
>> Champaign-Urbana but I am not part of the community of people who feel
>> that they are part of the IMC. And I don't see myself as having the
>> same interests as the community of people who feel that they are part
>> of the IMC.
>>
>> One of the things that makes me wary of the IMC is that it's not
>> obvious to me what the boundary of the IMC is. A normal institution
>> might have a board, employees, and a membership. If I have a grievance
>> with the IMC, I want to know who my grievance is with, and who my
>> grievance is not with. When I look at the IMC, I see a string of
>> relationships, and it's not clear to me who is part of the IMC and who
>> is not. If someone offers me their opinion about the IMC, I want to
>> know if that person is part of the IMC or not, because that's going to
>> shape how I understand what they say.
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 6:07 PM, Brook Celeste Lillard
>> <emailbrook at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > I am loathe to be part of this type of conversation in this format but I
>> > feel unethical leaving this most recent statement out here with no
>> > response.
>> >
>> > I do not understand why this unwieldy list of lists has become a forum
>> > for
>> > people to insult each other's work, intentions and intelligence.
>> >
>> > Accusing Rachel of limited horizons would be more offensive if it
>> > weren't so
>> > absurd. Seeing her work in settings all over Champaign-Urbana, and
>> > evidence
>> > of her work reaching far beyond this town, it is so clear that the IMC
>> > is in
>> > no way her main point of reference or focus. Frankly, the language used
>> > to
>> > describe Rachel's intelligent and caring response to these current
>> > horrible
>> > circumstances is condescending and sexist.
>> >
>> > I imagine that sending this email out will result in an attack. I feel
>> > silly
>> > partaking in a conversation that is no real conversation at all, but as
>> > someone who sees the real efforts behind and effects of Rachel's work I
>> > felt
>> > worse staying silent.
>> >
>> > Thank you all for your time, whoever you all are.
>> >
>> > Brook Celeste
>> >
>> > On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 5:06 AM, Robert Naiman
>> > <naiman at justforeignpolicy.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I think Rachel means well in what she is doing, but I think her
>> >> horizon is limited by her relationships. Her horizon appears to be:
>> >> what can you achieve by negotiating with people inside the IMC. I
>> >> think that's great as far as it goes. But I think that if you are
>> >> outside the IMC, and if you have interests that can't be protected by
>> >> the IMC, then you have a different horizon.
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 3:49 AM, Brussel, Morton K
>> >> <brussel at illinois.edu>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > Insofar as the incident that brought all this discussion into play, I
>> >> > find
>> >> > your response at best equivocal, mushy if I may say so.
>> >> > Yes, we should always be sensitive to the complexities of race,
>> >> > poverty,
>> >> > crime and gender. But sometimes one must address the issue at hand,
>> >> > which
>> >> > you do not do, presumably for fear that the IMC will be compromised.
>> >> >
>> >> > This said, I personally do not know what the facts of the matter are;
>> >> > they
>> >> > seem to be hidden behind ambiguous comments.
>> >> >
>> >> > Yes, long live the IMC, but…?
>> >> >
>> >> > --mkb
>> >> >
>> >> > On Nov 13, 2012, at 1:27 PM, Rachel Storm wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Julianne et al,
>> >> >
>> >> > Thank you for your e-mail and calling for a mindfulness and
>> >> > sensitivity
>> >> > on
>> >> > an issue that
>> >> > many of us have relationships to or personal experience with in one
>> >> > way
>> >> > or
>> >> > another.
>> >> >
>> >> > I was privileged to be able to listen and feel heard with folks who
>> >> > came
>> >> > together last night to
>> >> > discuss our concerns and urge support and I encourage those of us who
>> >> > are
>> >> > able/willing to
>> >> > continue to build dialogue in our community in order to seek healing,
>> >> > accountability, and
>> >> > encouraging coming together, not tearing apart, in moments like
>> >> > these.
>> >> >
>> >> > These issues don't exist in isolation and if we're concerned about
>> >> > injustice, we must remain
>> >> > ever vigilant about how important it is for us to support one another
>> >> > where
>> >> > possible. While
>> >> > denial around these issues are commonplace everywhere, I've seen
>> >> > outrage,
>> >> > care, support,
>> >> > love, and a desire to heal. Let's grow those efforts. Our strength as
>> >> > a
>> >> > community, and more
>> >> > importantly as an activist community, will be demonstrated through
>> >> > our
>> >> > ability to hold many
>> >> > concerns at once--refusing to allow legal and social structures to
>> >> > tear
>> >> > us
>> >> > apart and away from
>> >> > those concerns.
>> >> >
>> >> > I've been recommending The Revolution Starts at Home as a great
>> >> > resource.
>> >> > The zine is online
>> >> > here, but it will soon be published as a book for purchase with
>> >> > additional
>> >> > chapters, etc.
>> >> >
>> >> > Julianne mentions community accountability and I think this is key to
>> >> > helping us stay strong
>> >> > and to continue to build our power as a community, so here's some
>> >> > resources
>> >> > on community
>> >> > accountability:
>> >> >
>> >> > INCITE Women of Color Against Violence "Community Accountability"
>> >> > http://www.incite-national.org/index.php?s=114
>> >> >
>> >> > Transformative Justice
>> >> > http://www.transformativejustice.eu/?page_id=16
>> >> >
>> >> > Creative Interventions Toolkit on Community Accountability
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > http://www.creative-interventions.org/about/ci-projects/community-based-interventions-project/
>> >> >
>> >> > Generation Five
>> >> > http://www.generationfive.org/
>> >> >
>> >> > There is talk of creating a reading/practice group that will explore
>> >> > community accountability. This,
>> >> > I'm hopeful, will present us with an opportunity to ask for
>> >> > accountability
>> >> > both from ourselves and
>> >> > each other--not as a supplement for more formal redress from folks in
>> >> > leadership positions, but
>> >> > because we all have a role in creating safe, supportive community.
>> >> >
>> >> > Additionally, I'd like to ensure everyone knows how to access local
>> >> > resources* addressing
>> >> > sexual assault, advocacy, anti-violence, and healing after violence:
>> >> >
>> >> > Rape, Advocacy, Counseling and Education Services (RACES)
>> >> > http://www.cu-races.org/
>> >> > 24-Hour Rape Crisis Hotline: 1.217.384.4444
>> >> >
>> >> > Women's Resources Center, University of Illinois
>> >> > www.go.illinois.edu/wrc
>> >> > Tel. 217-333-3137
>> >> >
>> >> > A Woman's Place/Center for Women in Transition
>> >> > http://www.cwt-cu.org/html/dv_services.html
>> >> > Tel. 217-352-7151
>> >> >
>> >> > Cognition Works
>> >> > http://www.cognitionworks.org/
>> >> > Tel. 217-239-0142
>> >> >
>> >> > *This is by no means an exhaustive list, but I wanted to list a few
>> >> > important resources.
>> >> >
>> >> > Thanks for listening.
>> >> >
>> >> > Rachel
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 10:18 AM, Julianne Panagacos
>> >> > <julianne.panagacos at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Hi Bob,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I think the research you are proposing is important work though I
>> >> >> find
>> >> >> it triggering to have emails in my inbox everyday with rape in the
>> >> >> title, especially when it is so close to home. On other listservs
>> >> >> that
>> >> >> I am on when there is policy of putting something along the lines of
>> >> >> "potentially triggering material" in the title so that people can
>> >> >> choose to read it when they are ready to read about alleged sexual
>> >> >> assault. Are you (and others if you want to answer) willing to start
>> >> >> doing that?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I think it is important to acknowledge that a lot of people that
>> >> >> care
>> >> >> about and use the IMC are mourning and in shock, which does not
>> >> >> imply
>> >> >> denial. In other radical groups and scenes I've been part of and
>> >> >> heard
>> >> >> of, there are community accountability processes that have been
>> >> >> created and executed in order to use different models of justice
>> >> >> than
>> >> >> the model of justice imposed on us by the state. That is also not
>> >> >> denial, though you may not hear about it in a news paper. Being that
>> >> >> this allegation is already being pursed legally, I think it is most
>> >> >> important to make sure that there are resources for people- the
>> >> >> victim, defendant, families of those two parties and community
>> >> >> members,  to talk and process and support each other.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I hope emails to come are in the spirit of supporting ourselves
>> >> >> though
>> >> >> a hard time.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Best,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Julianne
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Nov 12, 2012, at 11:45 AM, Robert Naiman
>> >> >> <naiman at justforeignpolicy.org> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > According to the News-Gazette, the next court date in the IMC rape
>> >> >> > case is November 20:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Urbana man charged with sex assault
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > I heard a report that someone was trying to organize a
>> >> >> > "cheerleading
>> >> >> > squad" at the courthouse in support of the accused rapist.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Can anyone tell me if there is any truth to this report?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > I'm writing an expose for a national progressive website on rape
>> >> >> > denialism on the left, and the IMC rape case is going to be my
>> >> >> > case
>> >> >> > study.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > If anyone would like to be interviewed for this article, please
>> >> >> > let
>> >> >> > me
>> >> >> > know.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > --
>> >> >> > Robert Naiman
>> >> >> > Policy Director
>> >> >> > Just Foreign Policy
>> >> >> > www.justforeignpolicy.org
>> >> >> > naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > --
>> >> >> > School for Designing a Society listserv:
>> >> >> > http://groups.google.com/group/sdas-list
>> >> >> > To participate, email: sdas-list at googlegroups.com
>> >> >> > To unsubscribe, email: sdas-list+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> School for Designing a Society listserv:
>> >> >> http://groups.google.com/group/sdas-list
>> >> >> To participate, email: sdas-list at googlegroups.com
>> >> >> To unsubscribe, email: sdas-list+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Peace-discuss mailing list
>> >> > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>> >> > http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Robert Naiman
>> >> Policy Director
>> >> Just Foreign Policy
>> >> www.justforeignpolicy.org
>> >> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> School for Designing a Society listserv:
>> >> http://groups.google.com/group/sdas-list
>> >> To participate, email: sdas-list at googlegroups.com
>> >> To unsubscribe, email: sdas-list+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > brook celeste
>> > emailbrook at gmail.com
>> > 845-594-9065
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Robert Naiman
>> Policy Director
>> Just Foreign Policy
>> www.justforeignpolicy.org
>> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
>>
>> --
>> School for Designing a Society listserv:
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>>
>>
>
>
>
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>

-- 
Robert Naiman
Policy Director
Just Foreign Policy
www.justforeignpolicy.org
naiman at justforeignpolicy.org