[Peace-discuss] Fwd: Unable to deliver your message

Wed Nov 14 20:10:14 UTC 2012

I just want to point out here, how this is an example of how
problematically these listservs are being used, willy-nilly. I am not on
SF-core and therefore unable to response when emails I write on other lists
are forwarded there. I think this is an example of bad practice.

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---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Rachel Storm <rachelstrm at gmail.com>
To: Robert Naiman <naiman at justforeignpolicy.org>
Cc: Brook Celeste Lillard <emailbrook at gmail.com>, "Brussel, Morton K" <
brussel at illinois.edu>, Julianne Panagacos <julianne.panagacos at gmail.com>,
sdas <sdas-list at googlegroups.com>, Peace-discuss List <
peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>, SFcore <sf-core at yahoogroups.com>,
centraliljwj <CentralILJwJ at yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 11:04:18 -0600
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [SDaS] In response to recent emails and IMC
case
Bob,

In the future, it might be important to allow me to answer questions you
have about what I've shared rather than make assumptions. I'm actually not
just talking about the "IMC" but rather, as I indicate, a larger community
of activists (i.e. people who care to respond to injustice). I wouldn't
have written that e-mail to a number of lists (that you identified),
dismissing my own irritation about the way these listservs are used, if I
didn't think the majority of the audience fit within what I was loosely
calling "community," And trust me, I don't feel "mushy" about any of
it--it's painfully obvious that care and commitment to community is not
freely given or even assumed.

The IMCs structure is explained here:
http://www.ucimc.org/content/uc-imc-structure-legal-docs
(To be honest, I see a lot more transparency with structure and who is on
the board than with a number of other organizations in CU.)

As far as "part of the IMC"--I think you'll find that a community
center/media center, which is what I personally think the IMC serves as, is
home or work or space or studio to a number of different people of a number
of different projects or moments. Yes, there is a board. Yes, there is
staff. And there are people who volunteer and create (without compensation)
radio shows, events, working groups, schools, etc. These are good questions
for a board member.

RS

On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 10:32 AM, Robert Naiman <
naiman at justforeignpolicy.org> wrote:

> I didn't mean it as an insult, or a dismissal.
>
> When Rachel refers to "our community," I think she means the community
> of people who feel that they are part of the IMC. I don't think she
> means everyone domiciled in Champaign-Urbana. I think the community of
> people who feel that they are part of the iMC and people who are
> domiciled in Champaign-Urbana are different groups of people who don't
> necessarily have the same interests. I am domiciled in
> Champaign-Urbana but I am not part of the community of people who feel
> that they are part of the IMC. And I don't see myself as having the
> same interests as the community of people who feel that they are part
> of the IMC.
>
> One of the things that makes me wary of the IMC is that it's not
> obvious to me what the boundary of the IMC is. A normal institution
> might have a board, employees, and a membership. If I have a grievance
> with the IMC, I want to know who my grievance is with, and who my
> grievance is not with. When I look at the IMC, I see a string of
> relationships, and it's not clear to me who is part of the IMC and who
> is not. If someone offers me their opinion about the IMC, I want to
> know if that person is part of the IMC or not, because that's going to
> shape how I understand what they say.
>
> On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 6:07 PM, Brook Celeste Lillard
> <emailbrook at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I am loathe to be part of this type of conversation in this format but I
> > feel unethical leaving this most recent statement out here with no
> response.
> >
> > I do not understand why this unwieldy list of lists has become a forum
> for
> > people to insult each other's work, intentions and intelligence.
> >
> > Accusing Rachel of limited horizons would be more offensive if it
> weren't so
> > absurd. Seeing her work in settings all over Champaign-Urbana, and
> evidence
> > of her work reaching far beyond this town, it is so clear that the IMC
> is in
> > no way her main point of reference or focus. Frankly, the language used
> to
> > describe Rachel's intelligent and caring response to these current
> horrible
> > circumstances is condescending and sexist.
> >
> > I imagine that sending this email out will result in an attack. I feel
> silly
> > partaking in a conversation that is no real conversation at all, but as
> > someone who sees the real efforts behind and effects of Rachel's work I
> felt
> > worse staying silent.
> >
> > Thank you all for your time, whoever you all are.
> >
> > Brook Celeste
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 5:06 AM, Robert Naiman
> > <naiman at justforeignpolicy.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> I think Rachel means well in what she is doing, but I think her
> >> horizon is limited by her relationships. Her horizon appears to be:
> >> what can you achieve by negotiating with people inside the IMC. I
> >> think that's great as far as it goes. But I think that if you are
> >> outside the IMC, and if you have interests that can't be protected by
> >> the IMC, then you have a different horizon.
> >>
> >> On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 3:49 AM, Brussel, Morton K <
> brussel at illinois.edu>
> >> wrote:
> >> > Insofar as the incident that brought all this discussion into play, I
> >> > find
> >> > your response at best equivocal, mushy if I may say so.
> >> > Yes, we should always be sensitive to the complexities of race,
> poverty,
> >> > crime and gender. But sometimes one must address the issue at hand,
> >> > which
> >> > you do not do, presumably for fear that the IMC will be compromised.
> >> >
> >> > This said, I personally do not know what the facts of the matter are;
> >> > they
> >> > seem to be hidden behind ambiguous comments.
> >> >
> >> > Yes, long live the IMC, but…?
> >> >
> >> > --mkb
> >> >
> >> > On Nov 13, 2012, at 1:27 PM, Rachel Storm wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Julianne et al,
> >> >
> >> > Thank you for your e-mail and calling for a mindfulness and
> sensitivity
> >> > on
> >> > an issue that
> >> > many of us have relationships to or personal experience with in one
> way
> >> > or
> >> > another.
> >> >
> >> > I was privileged to be able to listen and feel heard with folks who
> came
> >> > together last night to
> >> > discuss our concerns and urge support and I encourage those of us who
> >> > are
> >> > able/willing to
> >> > continue to build dialogue in our community in order to seek healing,
> >> > accountability, and
> >> > encouraging coming together, not tearing apart, in moments like these.
> >> >
> >> > These issues don't exist in isolation and if we're concerned about
> >> > injustice, we must remain
> >> > ever vigilant about how important it is for us to support one another
> >> > where
> >> > possible. While
> >> > denial around these issues are commonplace everywhere, I've seen
> >> > outrage,
> >> > care, support,
> >> > love, and a desire to heal. Let's grow those efforts. Our strength as
> a
> >> > community, and more
> >> > importantly as an activist community, will be demonstrated through our
> >> > ability to hold many
> >> > concerns at once--refusing to allow legal and social structures to
> tear
> >> > us
> >> > apart and away from
> >> > those concerns.
> >> >
> >> > I've been recommending The Revolution Starts at Home as a great
> >> > resource.
> >> > The zine is online
> >> > here, but it will soon be published as a book for purchase with
> >> > additional
> >> > chapters, etc.
> >> >
> >> > Julianne mentions community accountability and I think this is key to
> >> > helping us stay strong
> >> > and to continue to build our power as a community, so here's some
> >> > resources
> >> > on community
> >> > accountability:
> >> >
> >> > INCITE Women of Color Against Violence "Community Accountability"
> >> > http://www.incite-national.org/index.php?s=114
> >> >
> >> > Transformative Justice
> >> > http://www.transformativejustice.eu/?page_id=16
> >> >
> >> > Creative Interventions Toolkit on Community Accountability
> >> >
> >> >
> http://www.creative-interventions.org/about/ci-projects/community-based-interventions-project/
> >> >
> >> > Generation Five
> >> > http://www.generationfive.org/
> >> >
> >> > There is talk of creating a reading/practice group that will explore
> >> > community accountability. This,
> >> > I'm hopeful, will present us with an opportunity to ask for
> >> > accountability
> >> > both from ourselves and
> >> > each other--not as a supplement for more formal redress from folks in
> >> > leadership positions, but
> >> > because we all have a role in creating safe, supportive community.
> >> >
> >> > Additionally, I'd like to ensure everyone knows how to access local
> >> > resources* addressing
> >> > sexual assault, advocacy, anti-violence, and healing after violence:
> >> >
> >> > Rape, Advocacy, Counseling and Education Services (RACES)
> >> > http://www.cu-races.org/
> >> > 24-Hour Rape Crisis Hotline: 1.217.384.4444
> >> >
> >> > Women's Resources Center, University of Illinois
> >> > www.go.illinois.edu/wrc
> >> > Tel. 217-333-3137
> >> >
> >> > A Woman's Place/Center for Women in Transition
> >> > http://www.cwt-cu.org/html/dv_services.html
> >> > Tel. 217-352-7151
> >> >
> >> > Cognition Works
> >> > http://www.cognitionworks.org/
> >> > Tel. 217-239-0142
> >> >
> >> > *This is by no means an exhaustive list, but I wanted to list a few
> >> > important resources.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks for listening.
> >> >
> >> > Rachel
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 10:18 AM, Julianne Panagacos
> >> > <julianne.panagacos at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Hi Bob,
> >> >>
> >> >> I think the research you are proposing is important work though I
> find
> >> >> it triggering to have emails in my inbox everyday with rape in the
> >> >> title, especially when it is so close to home. On other listservs
> that
> >> >> I am on when there is policy of putting something along the lines of
> >> >> "potentially triggering material" in the title so that people can
> >> >> choose to read it when they are ready to read about alleged sexual
> >> >> assault. Are you (and others if you want to answer) willing to start
> >> >> doing that?
> >> >>
> >> >> I think it is important to acknowledge that a lot of people that care
> >> >> about and use the IMC are mourning and in shock, which does not imply
> >> >> denial. In other radical groups and scenes I've been part of and
> heard
> >> >> of, there are community accountability processes that have been
> >> >> created and executed in order to use different models of justice than
> >> >> the model of justice imposed on us by the state. That is also not
> >> >> denial, though you may not hear about it in a news paper. Being that
> >> >> this allegation is already being pursed legally, I think it is most
> >> >> important to make sure that there are resources for people- the
> >> >> victim, defendant, families of those two parties and community
> >> >> members,  to talk and process and support each other.
> >> >>
> >> >> I hope emails to come are in the spirit of supporting ourselves
> though
> >> >> a hard time.
> >> >>
> >> >> Best,
> >> >>
> >> >> Julianne
> >> >>
> >> >> On Nov 12, 2012, at 11:45 AM, Robert Naiman
> >> >> <naiman at justforeignpolicy.org> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > According to the News-Gazette, the next court date in the IMC rape
> >> >> > case is November 20:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Urbana man charged with sex assault
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I heard a report that someone was trying to organize a
> "cheerleading
> >> >> > squad" at the courthouse in support of the accused rapist.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Can anyone tell me if there is any truth to this report?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I'm writing an expose for a national progressive website on rape
> >> >> > denialism on the left, and the IMC rape case is going to be my case
> >> >> > study.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > If anyone would like to be interviewed for this article, please let
> >> >> > me
> >> >> > know.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > --
> >> >> > Robert Naiman
> >> >> > Policy Director
> >> >> > Just Foreign Policy
> >> >> > www.justforeignpolicy.org
> >> >> > naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
> >> >> >
> >> >> > --
> >> >> > School for Designing a Society listserv:
> >> >> > http://groups.google.com/group/sdas-list
> >> >> > To participate, email: sdas-list at googlegroups.com
> >> >> > To unsubscribe, email: sdas-list+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> School for Designing a Society listserv:
> >> >> http://groups.google.com/group/sdas-list
> >> >> To participate, email: sdas-list at googlegroups.com
> >> >> To unsubscribe, email: sdas-list+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Peace-discuss mailing list
> >> > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
> >> > http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Robert Naiman
> >> Policy Director
> >> Just Foreign Policy
> >> www.justforeignpolicy.org
> >> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
> >>
> >> --
> >> School for Designing a Society listserv:
> >> http://groups.google.com/group/sdas-list
> >> To participate, email: sdas-list at googlegroups.com
> >> To unsubscribe, email: sdas-list+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > brook celeste
> > emailbrook at gmail.com
> > 845-594-9065
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Robert Naiman
> Policy Director
> Just Foreign Policy
> www.justforeignpolicy.org
> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
>
> --
> School for Designing a Society listserv:
> http://groups.google.com/group/sdas-list
> To participate, email: sdas-list at googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe, email: sdas-list+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com
>
>
>
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