[Peace-discuss] prepare!
Susan Parenti
sparenti at illinois.edu
Sun Nov 18 22:43:39 UTC 2012
> Notes taken by Stuart Levy of the initial meeting around "Still
> Occupy"?
-----------------------
> "Still Occupy?" meeting of 10/29/2012, called by Susan Parenti, in
> IMC SDAS Family Room
>
> Attending: Susan P, (a woman SL doesn't know), Karen M/L, Jesse P,
> Mark E, Chris E, Paul M, Austin M, Rachel S, Sandra H, Theresa S,
> Doug C, Pam C, Eleanor E, Chris G, Ya'aqov, Stuart L.
>
> Notes by Stuart. [I missed many good things said - please post
> additions & corrections! -SL]
>
> Susan -
> I thought we were onto something last yr with occupy...
>
> Great... but too few people
>
> Shall we try for a couple evenings -- not a GA, not Occupy Group,
> but...
> talk with one another + hearing from those who couldn't be here but
> have written in
>
> What next? as a movement? interest group?
> Lots of things are going on in this town. Occupy infused with
> lots of energy.
> Yet it's still a small group.
> So - is occupy superfluous?
>
> Let's have a meeting, and maybe two more after this, at least.
>
> Bringing out ideas that we think we can actually do.
>
> Rachel -
> What has occupy brought that's unique?
> Many familiar faces are here - same people working on other causes
> in this town.
> What is different with us?
> What's special, what joys & struggles have been particular to occupy?
>
> rachel's been excited about occupy in the past ... but can't be
> on listserv any more.
> Should be a place where *we* as activists define the culture.
> "isn't that just another type of power and control?"
> i'm not here to be a libertarian, i'm here for anti-racism, anti-
> sexism.
> let me be honest and blatant.
> and i have other projects, other things going on.
>
> hopes for OccupyCU - haven't been what ...
> voices and needs of marginalized people in capitalist system.
> we do talk about that with respect to workers, but not re gender,
> sexuality.
>
> it's encouraging to see familiar people from other meetings - but
> leads me to ask, why more meetings?
> valuable things come to mind: Karen sending out lists of any
> events she can think of to every person she can think of.
>
> Austin M -
> I was turned off by "macho dynamics" / "process hawks" in last
> winter's Occupy.
> -> attention to formats for participation (GA, who speaks
> when ...)
> but weren't able to keep in check the dynamics
> We weren't paying enough attention to people who were being
> quiet.
>
> Seemed as though we'd rather say,
> Let's not defeat capitalism, let's just make our own perfect
> little circle...
>
> Last winter, people were concerned with Class. with Capitalism.
> I've missed the politicization so much ...
> Many people feel they [weren't served by focusuing on election /
> on obama]
>
> "Strike Debt" [Debt Resister's Handbook] -
> morality behind Debt as being a key way that people are bound in
> to the current system.
> prevents us from recognizing the [?]
>
> Occupy served an essential role of politicizing things.
> Now it's time for us to think about gaining power.
> Some have suggested an Occupy political party. Things to be
> said for and against that.
> Austin imagines neighborhood associations.
> Ultimately to make these governmental systems that we have not
> consented to, irrelevant.
>
>
> Susan - would like for people to feel heard.
>
>
> Pam Carsey
> Some people have been activists a long time -
> and for others who haven't, sometimes even the terms are
> unfamiliar.
> It's been good for me personally, growth
> but i have wondered if it could be superfluous, whether it's
> effective in the community
>
> i'm glad, mostly
>
> Karen Medina / Karen Evans Levy (cheers!)
> Occupy serves a role for us.
> people at demos would ask, Who are you? when we said Occupy,
> people said Cool, i want your literature.
> Even if it doesn't serve a role for *us*, it does serve a role
> for the community.
> It's a nationally understood group -- a brand
>
> One thing that happened to occupy - we had expectations of
> actually overthrowing capitalism.
> Things that we couldn't do in ten weeks, or even ten years.
> How do we know what even little successes are, and how do we know
> we're on a path to bigger successes?
>
> Paul Mueth -
> It's still part of the zeitgeist. we should keep it alive.
> Just heard of Occupy Fukushima.
>
> and remember, We Have Two Referenda thanks to OccupyCU (2 in
> Urbana, 1 in Champaign).
> Citizens' United / corporate personhood / money as speech, and
> antidote to the Marketplace of No Ideas at marketplace mall
>
> and, glad that there are so many people here today.
>
> Mark Enslin
> occupy wall st - to me was a combination of a tactic, a sort of
> analysis, and a response to a hurt.
> it interested me to see who responded to occupy. the hurt
> didn't have a clear name, but it was economic hurt.
>
> the part we [didn't realize] - the Occupy part - meant that we
> didn't have the bracing experience of having the police break down
> our occupation, discard our libraries & computers...
>
> It's slipping out of the naming.
> 1% vs 99% - to see that poor, destitute, and middle class,
> might have some [common cause?]
> the people who are poor are getting less limelight than [workers?]
> we never quite got to actually defending people who are losing
> their homes to foreclosure
> i still don't know what need we are fulfulling in c-u
> so that we could address a hurt
> three things -- recognizing:
> Where people are hurting
> Analysis for thinking about change
> Tactic for [action?]
>
> In Occupy people were acting and talking at the same time.
> We resisted the cliches about where to protest [?]
>
> something else that shocked me, from the outside - race/gender
> issues:
> how can we be so far from being on the same page on that? ...
> working with people who seemed never to have confronted
> feminist issues in their lives.
> A just shouted down B, and doesn't see it as a feminist issue...
>
> Eleanor Evans
> stood up with groups like flexngate, or AWARE
> I'm involved now with homer coal mine, mahomet aquifer
> Showing us, "you can be strong, you can be effective"
> Not sure occupy needs to be a big thing
> and spend less time on internet talking about bradley manning,
> and more time actually Doing
>
> <woman stuart doesn't know>
> was away last year during nitty-gritty, but admired [?]
> one local issue I'm especially concerned about: Slum lords.
> Campus Property Mgmt and others. The way that CPM treats its
> tenants. This may be an issue for another forum
> -- tenants' union?
> they are good, but they can only do so much.
> i'd like to see CPM ruined.
>
> Ya'aqov
> popularizing occupy- bringing in more people - that's never
> interested me. it's never mattered to me whether many people came
> to protest.
> what *does* interest me are creative ways of carrying out protest.
> there are in this room, creative people who [could invent ...]
> If in 30 years, we can look back and say, "There were new ideas
> and they began here," that will be what I want
>
> we *did* have meetings until july.
> many of the ideas we're discussing now were mentioned in those
> meetings.
> we don't lack for ideas.
>
> i just think that what happened with the listserve was
> unfortunate - it became a saloon ..
>
> Jesse
> housing issues.
> Re City of Champaign trying to demolish an entire north Champaign
> neighborhood -- bristol place :
> there've been a couple protests, one or two;
> but it's being railroaded through *quickly*.
> Hoping to have the deal clinched by maybe mid-November - very soon.
> I'd been working earlier this year on antieviction campaign -- it
> fizzled out -- but it could be revived.
> This is a Much More Aggressive case of the city trying to
> demolish people's property, or using eminent domain -
> we could at least
> I know some in CUCPJ are working on it - but think we could help
> in some way. by publicizing issue...
>
> From antieviction work, I got lots of useful information on how
> to help people in this situation.
>
> We could protest in the neighborhoods that are affected, in front
> of the houses that are affected;
> we [something] about the court process of foreclosure
> The Bristol Place project is even more aggressive than
> foreclosure - just Give Us Your House -
> The work we did on that could be helpful.
>
> [Heard later: Jesse had attended a Housing Board meeting last
> Thursday (10/25?); one of the developers hoping to work on Bristol
> Place was present, and seemed to expect he'd get something in
> writing by Nov 15th.]
>
> Susan
> in Feb, meetings were happening about building a new jail.
> likewise on speedball.
>
> It was like Single Payer -
> "that's off the table", but you never saw the moment when it
> was *taken* off the table.
>
> This is what the 1% does.
> They make it look like you're not part of the meeting -- the
> meeting happened yesterday.
> It was so clear that that was what was happening at the jail -
> I even devised a skit - "Father knows Betzt" - but didn't quite
> dare perform it
>
> we're living in the era of Citizens United. if not us, who will
> work on citizens united?
>
> If we think of some thing that are Underneath the Suffering -
> and warn people - be a warning group - like in high schools:
> "If You Ever See This Happen - that an important decision is
> being Taken Away From You - then you'll know that
> some specific bad thing is happening.
> You'll Have a Vocabulary For It."
>
> as (though i don't like to use it) the 35 years of the Neocons -
> talking with educators, getting their language to be accepted as
> normal -
> and Shock Doctrine preparation
>
> Eleanor
> Where was Occupy at the aquifer hearings? we needed occupy there!
>
> Rachel
> I've loved Occupy for gaining access to organizing people
> that i wouldn't have access to otherwise
> yet we organize distinctively in different spaces
> Imagines occupy as a central way of checking in.
> Where is followup happening? how can we encourage [...]
>
> Austin
> I started becoming politically active at 16. organizing for
> Dean... and for a number of causes
>
> "It's like playing whack-a-mole" -- while the system keeps on
> running and creating more moles to whack.
> You end up feeling totally passive.
> Yet *talking* about the system gets into ideology, where we're
> likely to differ
>
> Where are the leverage points where we can ... ?
>
> If we have everybody in city of urbana on our side, we should do
> something besides protest.
> You get them to think politically.
> that The World We're Living In Is Not Natural, It Is Constructed.
>
> [I was impatient(?) with the language of "99%" vs "1%" - seemed
> like 99% was generous]
>
> to get people to realize that [they have interests in common?
> solidarity? austin you had a good way to say this. -SL]
>
> Chomsky: Occupy created a sense of solidarity in the US. When
> was the last time we had that, in the 1930s?
>
> There Is No One Mole that when whacked will dismantle the machine.
>
> A group that feels like we are working to Dismantle the whack-a-
> mole machine -- I think that's something we need
>
>
> Pam C
> Anxious that we do stay together. somehow. i just keep thinking
> of basic differences that make it hard to do that.
> Are we willing to be arrested?
> Are we opposing capitalism?
>
> Chris G
> What attracts me to occupy:
> That many people are hurt - and many people became active who
> didn't think of themselves as activists.
> and to those people, normal activist rules didn't apply - they
> knew nothing about them.
> of course, we do not agree on everything - and some of us place
> more importance on some issues than others ...
>
> Core of it to me: Money in Government. And the relation people
> have with the people who run the country.
> any decision that gets made, becomes a financial one.
>
> there's so much money going into these wars - and into the
> defense budget -
> some people are benefitting from that, and not many people,
> either.
> [we need to look at] how people are
>
> [frustrating] when 9 people are showing up for meetings, and we
> have 12 things we need to do.
> nothing was getting done.
> don't know whether i saw in advance that that would be an
> issue, but looking back, it was.
> some here are college educated, some were activists since they
> were 4... some aren't
>
> We aren't affiliated with any one party. we mostly lean left...
> though i have heard of republicans who appreciate occupy
>
> ... these people [1% in high positions] are allowed to keep their
> jobs, no matter what they've done...
>
> Susan - so you think there's a lot of solidarity to be found
> -- Yes. We can focus on what we agree on.
>
> Theresa
> in the classroom... i could teach about fairness ... and see it
> carried out (since i was in control)
> My hope of occupy was go move toward seeing a fairer world
> [Theresa, your way of saying this was so much better!]
> everyone's angry - and we agree on so many things which are
> unfair -
> and yet we don't realize that we *do*
>
> "Why are you here?", i'd ask karen getting yelled at every week,
> "get a job!"
> Standing next to like minded people has been so important
>
> Eleanor
> Agrees with whackamole.
> We don't want corporations to ruin our water....
> The issues aren't far away, they're right here.
> We do need to prioritize.
> but we can pick out things we want to do.
>
> Sandra
> i agree we don't want it to go away
> aquifer, move your money - though we sort of dropped it [were good
> things to do]
>
> Stuart
> Has admired how many issues Occupy has brought together,
> especially the emphasis on Class which underlies so many of them.
> Agrees emphatically with Austin's Whack-a-mole comments. Read
> out a related piece from M L King[1967]:
> The war in Vietnam is but a symptom of a far deeper malady ...
> if we ignore this sobering reality we will find ourselves organizing
> clergy- and laity-concerned committees for the next generation ...
> Guatemala and Peru, Thailand and Cambodia ... We will be marching
> for these and a dozen other names and attending rallies without end
> unless there is a profound change in American life and policy.
>
> Mentioned Francisco Baires <francisco at universityymca.org>, who
> spoke recently in a panel on immigrants' rights.
> Baires talked about the structure of a movement, and of different
> kinds of actions serving different roles.
> [added later: Baires cited sociologist Johan Galtung, and talked
> about his theories of structural and cultural violence, too. -SL]
>
>
> Chris E
> all these structures that Occupy raised, focus on money
> jeff glassman said it best when i asked him, what's this about?
> it does have a money/corporate component. But more -
> It's about people not being able to make decisions about
> their own lives any more.
>
> I liked occupy since it had no cult personality leader.
> It aimed for inclusion of everybody.
>
> I think it still has a commmitment for the long haul.
> Remember last january, the [SDAS] Truck Stop for the Long Haul.
>
> remember the west side park march, the early meetings?
> all that enthusiasm is still there.
> all those *problems* are still there.
>
> the big stuff - end the war, all that...
> Is it enough just to work on flexngate, on the aquifer?
>
> the referendum yes - but the campaigns that are most successful
> when [?]
>
> the real goal is *self-governance* as austin said. Create our own.
>
> You heard "get a job" because we got labelled as anti-business,
> anti-free-enterprise.
> That's wrong. "No," we say, "Let us in!"
>
> heard on WILL [maybe harry shearer's show? -SL]
> [SL, added later: Chris, was it this interview with Stephanie
> Kelton, about the foundations of money, the illusory nature of the
> US debt and the craziness of cutting spending during times of high
> unemployment...
> http://harryshearer.com/transcript-stephanie-kelton-interview/
> ]
>
> There's a guy who's been sleeping in the stairwell. He's
> deaf. He's still sleeping there.
>
> I just think: what Zucotti park did is to create a voice.
> it's been going on since the 30s, since king, ...
>
>
> Letters read out by others...
>
> rohnkoester [by e-mail]
> i tried to imagine the different world we would all be in if 1965
> Senate subcmte's projections had proved true, 20 hour work week by
> 2000, due to efficiencies and improved automation.
>
> The efficiencies have happened...
> Yet we now work longer than any other industrialized nation.
>
> Are we [Occupy] promoting the harder, richer path of creating
> more discretionary time?
> A shorter work week + a living wage would be a fine platform.
>
> As a poltiical movement, it can be practiced by anyone with a
> fulltime job.
> or by being champion slackers
>
> Belden Fields
> What's distinctive about occupy: it keeps focus on Class. even
> labor unions don't do this well.
> could stimulate campaign for recognition of 1966 cultural and
> economic rights document
> that Congress never ratified.
>
> Ian k
> who is running a fever tonight :(
> connection w other occupy websites...
>
> calendar has become a 1-stop place to see work of many social
> justice groups
>
> Registrants to Occupy web site have been only spammers for last
> several months.
> I'll give up sorting through registrants as an admin, and editing
> the calendar,
> if this meeting folds Occupy as an organization.
>
>
> -----
>
> Pause
>
> -----
>
> Karen -
> I love all of you.
> the idea, You're All Different - we need that. if we were all
> the same
> Occupy is Needed.
> We have people being made homeless.
> We have injustices here. We have injustices underlying injustices.
> You have all made my life so much richer.
>
> Yaaqov
> We don't have to agree on anything, next week, except [that we're
> going to talk with each other]
>
> We could talk about what we should say to our families for
> thanksgiving.
> We could talk about how to organize the ideas that have come out
> today.
>
>
> Susan
> I feel i need to study how we could Go About Doing Some of the
> things we were doing so passionately last year.
> They were doing things in new york - we did too -
> We have exactly the same problems, and notice the discourse
> The problems still sit with their nasty shadowed faces -
> "You named me last year, but I'm still here"
>
> wants to study what we're doing so as to have some theory behind it
> [like what Francisco Baires had said].
>
> Paul Mueth
> I'd like to whack some moles.
>
> Still interested in what media buys are going on, even though
> little time is left.
> "I'm entitled to bother you about your public file. Who's
> behind these ads?"
> I'm going down to wdws, the News-Gazette's AM station.
> Some calls there about the referendum might be in order.
>
> I do think there's something at stake in IL-13 with Gill.
>
> Chris Goodrow
> That's who's winning the election: the media. They're happy to
> take $$ from either party.
>
> Mark Enslin -
> Already, tonight, 5-6 people have brought up things to work on.
> I'd like to see people present plans next week on how to go
> forward with them.
>
> Eleanor
> I tell my art students: If you vote, don't listen to Fox. Listen
> to PBS, NPR.
>
>
> [meanwhile, Karen looked at Chris Evans' jail-system art on the
> white board...]
>
> On the wall:
> The Champaign County Board is being told by law enforcement* that a
> $20 Millinon dollar jail is needed because the inmates are mentally
> ill and a new facility would be the most humanitarian thing the
> county could do, to better serve the mentally ill:
> "Medication time!"
> "What?"
> * Sheriff Walsh & County administrator Deb Busey
> But aren't the mentally ill dangerous criminals? Answer: No.
> According to the mental health nurse at the jail, 80% of those
> inmates with a psychiatric diagnosis and receiving psychotropic
> medication in the jail, are charged with low level misdemeanors.
>
> Does anyone know know where police could take a person in crisis
> that is NOT a 5' x 9' cinder block isolation jail cell?
>
> And could you explain the alternatives to the county board Nov. 8;
> 6:00 P.M.? Thanks, The Mentally Ill
>
>
>
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